Image via Bee Gutierrez
Some albums just sound like a victory lap. They convey the feeling that the artist has already won, but will never stop. Love (the) Ominous World, the latest from Southern California’s favorite sons, Blu and Exile, is that kind of album. And in a fitting circularity, it’s their first release since gaining ownership of the masters for Below the Heavens, their canonized debut album that cemented them as 21st Century torchbearers of L.A. underground hip-hop.
Unlike their most recent two collaborative projects, Miles (2021) and Give Me My Flowers While I Can Still Smell Them (2012), this album was made with a different sentiment. It was made knowing that they’d successfully fought for what was rightfully theirs. They’d come to learn that although the world can be ominous, love and justice can prevail.
Johnson “Blu” Barnes and Al “Exile” Manfredi first got together in 2003. The two were introduced by fellow SoCal native Aloe Blacc, Exile’s longtime friend and counterpart in Emanon. The meteoric impact of Below the Heavens led Blu to receive a Warner Bros deal, become part of XXL’s famed 2009 Freshman Class, and make one of the classic Low End Theory rap records in NoYork!; Exile has since produced for Flying Lotus, Open Mike Eagle, and Pharoahe Monch, as well as helmed production for revered collaborative albums with Fashawn and Choosey.
On Love (the) Ominous World, Exile flexes his mastery, using whip-smart, crate-digging samples and funky percussion. It both pays homage to the golden age of hip-hop yet feels simultaneously contemporary. In true Blu form, the writing and delivery emphasizes compelling narratives. “Suge Knight” rests comfortably in both the lineage of Slick Rick’s “Children’s Story” and Kendrick Lamar’s “DUCKWORTH.” The song details the unexpected twists and turns of a seemingly unlikely meeting and how, had just a few things been slightly different, Blu probably would have been on Death Row Records and the world would probably never have received Below the Heavens.
Despite the sporadic tempo of their releases (five years, eight years, four years) — the boys have been busy. Not only did Blu drop four other albums this year (Royal Blu with Roy Royal in February, Out of the Blue with Shafiq Husayn in March, abc in May, and Los Angeles with Evidence in July), but the pair whittled this Love (the) Ominous World from 60 completed tracks and have teased that this album is the first in a larger project with a hint in the title. My guess? Either a trilogy that ends up spelling “Low End Theory.” Or maybe a tetralogy or quadriptych that spells “Below the Heavens.”
In the weeks following the September release of the album, we talked about their working relationship, hopes for the future, and preserving the parts of hip-hop they fell in love with. Not just the beats and bravado, but the parts that helped shape their ideas of what it means to be a good person. – Nereya Otieno
In 2022, y’all were touring for the 15th anniversary of Below the Heavens. Did spending so much time revisiting your first full project influence Love (the) Ominous World or not really?
Blu: Below the Heavens is always on my mind when I’m creating an album, because it’s our most celebrated album. So, you know, I always want to… I’m always competing, you know what I mean? I want to make one better or something similar or very different from it.
Exile: Yeah, or, like, updated formulas. But also obviously updated through Blu’s life experience, too, as that updates naturally.
You both have always been heavy L.A. champions. This album seems like it’s celebrating more of Southern California as a whole. How have your relationships to California either evolved or changed over time?
Blu: I’ve always loved L.A. I’ve always loved California, it’s where I come from. This year was the West Coast Turn-Up Year for me. I dropped about four projects. People said all of them had an underlying West Coast theme. I thought that was pretty cool that that worked out that way.
Exile: Sonically, we wanted it to have a feel of Below the Heavens, but sound L.A. My goal was to touch on a few lost L.A. production styles and add my twist on it. Keep those sounds alive. I think with the Internet and social media, traditional sounds based on where you live are starting to get lost, you know? There are a lot of New York sounds getting lost or it’s just all kind of morphing together.
I’ve always loved that about artists and where they came from and how the music emulated that. I think that was a part of our goal: Be able to do that, but still with our signature sound. I felt like we did a good job of that.
You did do a good job of that. It is interesting in general with technology, how geolocation is lost because you’re everywhere all the time and everyone can be everywhere all the time.
Exile: Exactly.
Your second album was called Give Me My Flowers While I Can Still Smell Them, but you really do give flowers often and have so many homies on this album. How do you balance that flower-giving with the bravado that comes with emcee-ing?
Blu: We talk about a lot of theories and ways of living life, and I put a lot of that into the music. What I’m building with Ex is like a reflection of the relationship we have, the friendship we have together. I’m a humble person as it is, and I appreciate all our ancestors and people before us. All our heroes and our homies. People give me a lot of flowers. It’s just natural that I give the flowers back.
Not everyone does that. Not everyone gives flowers back. Some people got a lot of bouquets and don’t even know the number of a florist.
Exile: Bars.
What about you, Exile? Producers, especially ones who sample, that entire practice is flower-giving in a certain way. How do you, musically, balance the flexing with the flower giving?
Exile: I try to push at least the artists that I work with to be able to communicate something that will give back to the listener. I’m not saying they don’t do it on their own, but I definitely try to push for the lyrics and the music to be an exchange of energy. You know, like what I heard from KRS-One and how that made me feel and think. How that made me connect to myself or connect to a certain type of energy that might be God or something powerful, you know?
Blu: That’s true. Exile is definitely like that. Spread love is the Exile way.
Exile: I want to be part of the balance of hip-hop. You know, because I think it really needs a balance.
What do you mean by that?
Exile: Like, for instance, what Kendrick did with his battle and how he’s trying to balance Drake and his influence on the game and people out there making selfish music because of him. Music about being shitty to women or selling drugs and all that. I mean, all those things exist and are real. But, I’m talking about wanting to be part of something that can create the balance in hip-hop so you can still have this type of hip-hop exist.
The veggies.
Exile: Yeah. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the sport of hip hop. It’s great. But some people think that’s all it is. You gotta battle. You gotta be the best. But that’s not true. It doesn’t have to be only that. That can play a part — and it does in our music, too.
There was a balance back in the day. Native Tongue. Freestyle Fellowship. That kind of shit helps people stay connected to the human in them and not just be out for themselves and fucking other people’s girlfriends all night. You feel me?
100%. I often say that if you’re a true fan of hip-hop, you’re a fan of people. Because what you’re doing, more than anything, is saying, ‘I’m gonna listen to your story.’ That means that your story is important, but so is my time. I think that’s the core of hip-hop. Which leads me to another question, actually. Blu, you said in the past that “Cold Hearted” was your most personal song. Is that still the case?
Blu: I would say so. It’s the most in-depth I’ve got into my personal life. My upbringing. I’ll talk about it now, but not as in-depth.
Exile: Although you did get pretty in-depth in “Valley of the Kings” on a more recent, up-to-date in-depth-ness, if you will. But “Cold Hearted” was definitely more poetic.
Blu: “Valley of the Kings” is poetic, bro.
Exile: Not like that! I just meant it was definitely personal and in-depth. Yes, it’s poetic. I would say “Cold Hearted” is more abstract, if I could edit that there. Okay?
Blu: “Valley of the Kings” is abstract, bro. Whatever, man.
On the balance and the veggies of hip hop, what are some collaborations that y’all are hoping for that haven’t happened yet?
Blu: Ice Cube. Ice-T. I’ve been on a song with Kendrick, I’d like to do another. I think that would be fire. Vince Staples, for sure. Ab-Soul. KRS-One and Big Daddy Kane.
What about you, Exile?
Exile: Ab-Soul, Vince Staples, Vince Staples, Vince Staples. And Ab-Soul…And Ab-Soul. I say it like that because he’s always talking about our music. We gotta make it happen.
I’m a huge Ice-T fan since I was a little kid, so that would be crazy, too. Of course. Ice Cube would be crazy.
Well, now it’s out in the world. How have your approaches to your craft evolved over time? Do you categorize what you do in the same way as when you started?
Blu: No. Writing a verse is so much easier now. I could write a verse in a couple hours as opposed to a couple days or weeks. It still takes time and concentration, but it’s a lot easier than it used to be. I would say that’s just through experience and reading.
When I was younger, it was hard because I hadn’t experienced much. I was always reaching for something to say beyond myself that I thought was entertaining or captivating. It was a tougher reach. Now it’s easier to see across the board. And choose things to make music about.
What about you, Ex?
Exile: [pauses, thinking]
Blu: I can answer the question for him.
Exile: Yeah, let’s do it.
Blu: When we first started working, he was almost strictly the MPC. Now he works with different beat machines, different instruments. He’s mastered the MPC, but now he’s mastering others.
Exile: It evolves with my taste, and it evolves with what I want to hear. A lot of that does come from just listening to other music. Whether any artist wants to admit it or not, when they listen to music, they’re going to be influenced by it. It’s not biting, it’s just inspiration. That’s one of the greatest things about humans, we inspire each other.
You’ve hinted that this album is part of a bigger project. Knowing that, how has that affected the writing and creative process?
Blu: We did a lot of songs for this album — about 60 — and we kind of like a lot of the songs. We picked songs for this particular album that went well with each other. Songs that kind of came together and told a story. That’s pretty much how we chose this album.
So this album is one cohesive story, but is it going to fit into a larger, bigger umbrella story that the future projects will be as well, or all of them will kind of be their own tied together by the title?
Exile: You’ll just have to wait and see.
I guess I do. I’m excited to see how y’all do it. I’m wondering, for both of you, when you work with other people, are you usually friends with those people?
Blu: Yeah. Most times, when you’re working with one producer on a project, you develop a strong bond. I believe I get close with producers every project I work on.
The reason I’m asking is because there’s an element of tenderness in how you two interact. Even during parts of this interview, Ex is pushing you to tell more of your story. Championing you. I don’t really have a question. It was an observation about your friendship.
Blu: It definitely influences the chemistry. I’ve worked with Exile longer than anybody else. We definitely get deeper when we work because of that. There’s more to share, more reasons to collab because of our deep friendship.
Exile: I remember I actually wrote Blu a letter. He made that trap album, and I…didn’t like it. I wrote him a letter as to why we need to make a different type of album. I don’t know if you remember that. [Blu nods]
I wrote this letter stating my case to him. I think he understood what I was talking about. I don’t know if that even fits with what we were talking about, but that was interesting.
It fits. ‘Cause like, Blu, your writing style is so narrative and so your songs are a real public ledger of your life. And the fact that that is being guided and framed by someone who really cares about you and knows your story is a unique position. That person for artists is often a relative or their partner, but not their creative collaborator. So it’s an interesting dynamic. It’s making me wonder how much of a writing credit Exile should have.
Blu: Right, true. You know, Exile is very hands on. He puts a lot into every song he creates. He’s involved in every aspect of the album, from the beginning to the end, from the business to the touring. It should be Blu and Exile and Blu…and Exile again. [Laughs]
Exile: You just have to edit out that I said “Valley of the Kings” isn’t abstract.
When I was younger, it was hard because I hadn’t experienced much. I was always reaching for something to say beyond myself that I thought was entertaining or captivating. It was a tougher reach. Now it’s easier to see across the board. And choose things to make music about.
What about you, Ex?
Exile: [pauses, thinking]
Blu: I can answer the question for him.
Exile: Yeah, let’s do it.
Blu: When we first started working, he was almost strictly the MPC. Now he works with different beat machines, different instruments. He’s mastered the MPC, but now he’s mastering others.
Exile: It evolves with my taste, and it evolves with what I want to hear. A lot of that does come from just listening to other music. Whether any artist wants to admit it or not, when they listen to music, they’re going to be influenced by it. It’s not biting, it’s just inspiration. That’s one of the greatest things about humans, we inspire each other.
You’ve hinted that this album is part of a bigger project. Knowing that, how has that affected the writing and creative process?
Blu: We did a lot of songs for this album — about 60 — and we kind of like a lot of the songs. We picked songs for this particular album that went well with each other. Songs that kind of came together and told a story. That’s pretty much how we chose this album.
So this album is one cohesive story, but is it going to fit into a larger, bigger umbrella story that the future projects will be as well, or all of them will kind of be their own tied together by the title?
Exile: You’ll just have to wait and see.
I guess I do. I’m excited to see how y’all do it. I’m wondering, for both of you, when you work with other people, are you usually friends with those people?
Blu: Yeah. Most times, when you’re working with one producer on a project, you develop a strong bond. I believe I get close with producers every project I work on.
The reason I’m asking is because there’s an element of tenderness in how you two interact. Even during parts of this interview, Ex is pushing you to tell more of your story. Championing you. I don’t really have a question. It was an observation about your friendship.
Blu: It definitely influences the chemistry. I’ve worked with Exile longer than anybody else. We definitely get deeper when we work because of that. There’s more to share, more reasons to collab because of our deep friendship.
Exile: I remember I actually wrote Blu a letter. He made that trap album, and I…didn’t like it. I wrote him a letter as to why we need to make a different type of album. I don’t know if you remember that. [Blu nods]
I wrote this letter stating my case to him. I think he understood what I was talking about. I don’t know if that even fits with what we were talking about, but that was interesting.
It fits. ‘Cause like, Blu, your writing style is so narrative and so your songs are a real public ledger of your life. And the fact that that is being guided and framed by someone who really cares about you and knows your story is a unique position. That person for artists is often a relative or their partner, but not their creative collaborator. So it’s an interesting dynamic. It’s making me wonder how much of a writing credit Exile should have.
Blu: Right, true. You know, Exile is very hands on. He puts a lot into every song he creates. He’s involved in every aspect of the album, from the beginning to the end, from the business to the touring. It should be Blu and Exile and Blu…and Exile again. [Laughs]
Exile: You just have to edit out that I said “Valley of the Kings” isn’t abstract.