The Best Revenge Is Living Well: An Interview with Roxanne Shanté

The Queensbridge battle queen reflects on the Roxanne Wars to balancing motherhood, hosting her Rock the Bells radio show to receiving the Hip Hop Grandmasters Award from the Paid in Full Foundation.
By    October 4, 2024

Image via Karl Ferguson Jr.


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To understand Roxanne Shanté at 53 requires understanding Roxanne Shanté at 15. And understanding Roxanne Shanté at 15 means that you have to understand Queensbridge, the neighborhood famously described by MC Shan as “the place where stars are born.” If you scan a list of hip-hop immortals that emerged from North America’s largest public housing project, you might easily mistake the blocks between Vernon and 21st Street for an expansive metropolis. But for all of its influence in popular culture, the QB is comprised of only 3,100 apartments that house 7,000 residents.

The list of natives deserves its own hall of fame: Marley Marl, Nas, Cormega, Mobb Deep, Tragedy Khadafi, Craig G, Big Noyd, Screwball, Blaq Poet, MC Shan, and of course, Shanté – who was called the “Queen of Rap” by the New York Times at her height of her mid-‘80s fame.

Shanté once tried to explain how such a staggering level of talent flourished in such a famously grimy environment. “There was definitely something in the water,” Shanté once said. “Though that something in the water was probably pollution—we lived right next to the damn power plant! We probably all got a little bit of Incredible Hulk in us.”

That’s probably the best way to describe how ferocious “Roxanne’s Revenge” seemed when it dropped in 1984. Exactly 40 years later, the response to UTFO’s “Roxanne Roxanne” remains one of the greatest debut singles and most iconic diss songs ever made. In seven minutes and just one take, Lolita Shanté Gooden became hip-hop’s first major female solo star and the first breakout artist from Marley Marl’s Juice Crew.

It was no surprise to anyone who was already familiar with Shanté’s preternatural gifts. She’d been winning battles since 10 years old, going bar-for-bar and besting male MCs more than twice her age.

“Growing up in the projects and in the group home you always have someone who could throw a beat up for an emcee to rhyme over,” Shanté tells me. “Hip-hop was our way of coping with our situation and our circumstances. Battling was an alternative to fighting.”

It was fitting that when Marley Marl was searching for the right fighter to go toe-to-toe against UTFO, all he had to do was holler out the window to Shanté. Marley and Mr. Magic were seeking vengeance after the Brooklyn group had cancelled on a show that they were promoting. Over the original song’s instrumental, Shanté unleashed an arson spree that torched UTFO’s lyrical skills, looks, lack of game, and even their father’s masculinity.

No one had ever heard anything like it – especially not from a baby-faced girl with a ponytail – who had recorded the song a few weeks before her 15th birthday. But this was classic Queensbridge. Long before Nas went live from the BBQ; long before Prodigy and Havoc described this “hell on earth,” Shanté brought the serrated grit and raw lyrics that defined QB rap.

“Roxanne’s Revenge” was a viral sensation before the phenomenon existed. It kickstarted the “Roxanne Wars,” in which anywhere from 30 to 100 diss records were created by rappers trying to earn secondhand clout from Shante’s initial incineration. None came close. The “Roxanne’s Revenge” single sold a reported 250,000 copies. A massive underground hit that reached #22 on Billboard’s R&B Singles chart before the hip-hop rankings even existed.

Shanté’s profane warfare and clever wordplay flipped UTFO’s lecherous narrative on its neck. She became rap’s adolescent empress – one too smart and confident to fall for her prospective suitor’s lame come-ons. She proved for the first, but certainly not the last time, that female solo MCs could be as aggressive, lyrically sharp, and dominant as their male counterparts. In fact, her cuts left such severe scars that an embarrassed U.T.F.O. reportedly sent a cease-and-desist letter to Shanté’s team.

​”I called people out directly as a sign of respect,” she explains. “You can’t go through life sending subliminals; you need to be direct,” Shanté told me when we spoke last month. “If I’m going to express my feelings about someone, the best thing to do is go directly to their face. So that way, there’s no mistaking who it’s intended for. No one could ever say, ‘I think Roxanne is talking about me.’ With Roxanne Shanté, you know exactly who she is talking about.”

Like so many of her peers from the first decade of recorded hip-hop, the business was never handled properly. The industry was designed to exploit and moved on swiftly. It would be four long years before Shanté released 1989’s Bad Sister, her debut album on Cold Chillin’. The Marley Marl-produced LP received raves, but topped out at #52 on Billboard’s Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart. Her second and final album, 1992’s The Bitch is Back, was similarly slept on – despite production and guest raps from Kool G, the Large Professor, and Trackmasters.

Demons accompanied her hip-hop trajectory. Shanté was partially raised in a group home. She’d stolen clothes to make money, dealt with a mother battling alcoholism, and suffered emotional and physical abuse. She’d been cheated out of money by managers and those she trusted. At 25, she’d had enough. After dropping a greatest hits album, she retired from hip-hop to focus on motherhood and her own healing process.

In 2024, Shanté seems sanguine about it all. There is no more need for revenge. She’s a happily married mother of two and hosts a daily radio show and podcast on the Rock the Bells SiriusXM station. She’s been inducted into the National Hip-Hop Museum Hall of Fame and even was the subject of a 2017 Pharrell Williams-produced biopic, Roxanne Roxanne. This weekend at the Aria Hotel in Las Vegas, the Paid in Full Foundation will honor her with their Grandmaster’s Award, which guarantees a $100,000-per-year stipend for the next half-decade.

“My life is an open book; it’s just not an easy read,” Shanté says. “But I couldn’t write a better ending. I don’t know how everything would have played out for me if they had paid me what they owed me back then. I don’t know how it would have been if I was able to move in the big house, have the pools and have the money to do whatever at the beginning of my career when I was still so young. When it comes to fairy tales, it’s always better to have the happily ever after.”



When did you first get into rap?


Roxanne Shanté: As far as being a rap artist, I was about 10 years old when I did my first battle. My mom entered me in the local rap contest and she had to borrow $50 for me to enter.


Am I right in thinking that you had to ask for her permission to swear?


Roxanne Shanté: That’s right. When we got to the battle I asked her ‘can I curse?’ Because we didn’t call it swearing, literally, if you directed those words at someone, like I did in battle, you put ‘the curse’ on them. So I remember getting her permission to curse, and her telling me she didn’t care what I did, as long as I didn’t lose that $50! Luckily, I happened to win.


At what point did you realize that you could rap? I read somewhere that you started rapping at age eight after watching Nipsey Russell deliver his trademark rhymes on Hollywood Squares?


Roxanne Shanté: Before I even knew what a rapper was, I knew what a wordsmith was, and I knew that’s what I was going to be. And yes, I call it the ‘Nipsey Russell Syndrome’ – the ability to be able to make words rhyme at any time, about any thing.

The day we recorded “Roxanne’s Revenge,” DJ Marley Marl, who was like my big brother on the block, he shouted down from his window at me like ‘I need you to get up here. Listen, I heard that you can rhyme.’ And me always having a sassy mouth and also being sharp-witted, I answered ‘No, you KNOW that I can rhyme.’


Had you already heard UTFO’s “Roxanne Roxanne” before you got on the mic?


Roxanne Shanté: Oh yeah, it was a very popular record. I was walking to the laundromat when Marley called me up to record it. I knew UTFO were talking about a young lady by the name of Roxanne. And I felt like, ‘okay, you know what? I can respond back to this.’ I can be her and take this up for women. I can show them that when men approach you and try to heckle you, you can turn around and answer them back.


Where were you when you first heard “Roxanne’s Revenge” on the radio?


Roxanne Shanté: In my house. It was on Mr Magic’s show. Marley Marl was DJing on the WBLS radio station. It came on – well after midnight – maybe almost like one o’clock in the morning. Someone had heard it, and called me on the phone to say “Look, you know your song is playing on the radio?!” But I hung up the phone straight away because I remember it being so late at night, and I didn’t want to wake my mom up and get in trouble!


How did that feel?


Roxanne Shanté: I tell people all the time that I think I missed out on this great feeling of getting “bit by that bug.” You know, that first taste of fame. When everyone says ‘Oh, I remember that. I remember when my records first played on the radio.’ For me, I didn’t get that feeling because I didn’t hear it that first time. Everyone else did!


No one could have predicted “Roxanne’s Revenge” would spark 100 response records, written by more than 35 different artists, contributing to one of the most famous and extensive battles in hip-hop history.


Roxanne Shanté: Every city we performed in would have their own fake Roxanne Shante that they would want me to battle. They had “Baltimore’s Roxanne”, there was “California’s Roxanne”, there was “Delaware’s Roxanne.” There was always someone who wanted to battle me to see if they were better!


Did you rate any of those diss tracks that were aimed at you?


Roxanne Shanté: I like them all. What people don’t understand is, here I was from the projects, I’d made it through the group home. I’d went through a very rough and tough childhood. And now, whether it’s good or bad, I have all of these people singing about me. Rapping to me everywhere that I go. That popularity was great for me. I don’t know how other people would have handled it being 14. But for me, each and every record was a blessing.


In one interview you said that your mom compared your success to being the “Alexis” of Dynasty?


Roxanne Shanté: Yes exactly. I remember her telling me that. She said ‘Listen, you know you are like the Alexis. Everybody loves Dynasty and everybody loves Krystle [the protagonist.] But they watch it for Alexis! That’s who you are.’ Sometimes, there’s some people that people just love to hate, but they may turn out to love them.


When it came to responding you always preferred to battle face to face.


Roxanne Shanté: I always believed that in order to be the best, you had to beat the best – and the best way to do that was to be face to face. It didn’t bother me if we did it at a show, an arena, you know, the hallway of a building, I just enjoyed it.


You ran away from home and spent time living in a group home just as your rap career began to take off​. How did that time elevate your rapping?


Roxanne Shanté: I can say my experience definitely added to what I put into my lyrics – maybe how I delivered them and what allowed me to look at life that way. If you don’t see the bad, then you don’t know how to appreciate the good. If you don’t suffer losses, you don’t know how to celebrate your wins.


What kind of music did the young Roxanne listen to?


Roxanne Shanté: We listened to the music of the day. Whoever put a speaker up in their window was the DJ. Growing up in Queensbridge, there were so many different, beautiful cultures mixing together. We played every type of music, whether it was disco, country music, rock and roll, Calypso, just all types. But the main music playing in my household was R&B.


What was Queensbridge like during the 1980s? How would you describe the vibe to someone who wasn’t there?


Roxanne Shanté: I would say that it was a musical city, with these towering buildings full of every possible personality and idea. If you really wanted to know what the hip-hop Land of Oz looked like, it would definitely be Queensbridge! It felt like a huge family.


Speaking of families, you were the first and only female member of the Juice Crew. Biz Markie was your beatboxer, you and Big Daddy Kane swapped verses. I heard they were both the only two you trusted to babysit too!!


Roxanne Shanté: When you part of a crew and you’re all on the same label, everybody works with everyone. Everybody does production for everyone. Everyone throws ideas at each other. You really just want the best for each other. You’re a family.

We were battling each other all the time in the back of the car, touching up on each other’s skills, just to see where the next person was at. They’d play something, to see if it was good. Because if it was good enough for us, then we felt like it was good enough for the world.


What was the initiation process like to get in the Juice Crew ring?


Roxanne Shanté: Everyone had to already be a great lyricist, great writer, and great performer. We already had the bar set high.


The original version of “Roxanne’s Revenge” was so explicit that radio stations requested a cleaner version for airplay. Being a young female rapper in the mid-1980s whose aggressive style became a trademark, was it hard for you to get signed?


Roxanne Shanté: My unapologetic attitude and bold language were seen as risky, especially for a young woman in a male-dominated industry where female artists were often expected to conform or play by the rules.

But eventually, labels were coming for me. I signed to my first label Cold Chillin’ Records in Philadelphia because they offered total creative freedom.


The success of “Roxanne’s Revenge” totally eclipsed UTFO. Your own solo career was taking off. What about the royalties?


Roxanne Shanté: I was just young. I’m just coming into the industry, so I didn’t really know. I’ve never received a royalty check in advance. And this even goes for the times when I was making music with bigger record companies where the business was supposed to be better. It just didn’t turn out that way. I never allowed that to make me bitter or to make me angry. I just take life as it comes.


Speaking of being so young, another huge part of your fairy tale was having your first child Kareem at 16. How did you balance motherhood with a rap career?


Roxanne Shanté: My son literally grew up with me because I had him very young. He came to every show on the road. I want to say he was hip hop’s first traveling baby! You have to understand that I was the only female who was traveling, too. For everyone else, if their girlfriends had babies, their babies were at home with their girlfriend – but I’m the mom!


Did that come with any disapproval?


Roxanne Shanté: Kareem was phenomenal everywhere we went. He was just a hip-hop baby all day. He partied all night while I was on stage, he talked fast. I dressed him in Dapper Dan, whatever I was wearing, he got a mini version.

People didn’t have a choice. I was going to take him with me wherever I went. Now, there were a few magazines that wouldn’t give me the cover because they weren’t going to promote teen pregnancy. But I never once promoted teen pregnancy, I let everyone know that it wasn’t easy. There was so many things that I wasn’t allowed to do, and I credit Kareem for keeping me on track. That’s why you don’t see pictures of Roxanne Shanté at the after parties, rocking backstage, or things like that. At 16, I would do my show and then go back to my hotel room because I had a child to take care of.


Do you have a favorite record that you’ve written?


Roxanne Shanté: “Independent Woman.” Because that was a different type of record for Roxanne Shanté. It was still very razor sharp, and it’s still very witty, but it was me giving a warning and speaking to all of my sisters, not just my hip-hop sisters, not just women in the industry, but speaking to all women and letting them know the importance of being independent and standing on their own two feet.


A lot of your lyrics are about being stronger and better. At 16, would you have considered yourself a feminist?


Roxanne Shanté: Yes. Back then and today. Little girls need to hear that. Sometimes, we hold ourselves back from doing things because were told those are things only men are strong enough to handle. I wanted to change that mindset with my music.


If a rising female rapper asked you for advice today, what would you say?


Roxanne Shanté: I would say, don’t be like me. Get a lawyer! Don’t worry about getting somebody to do your hair. You can do your own hair. Don’t worry about who’s gonna pick out your clothes. You can pick out your own clothes. But whatever you do, get a lawyer, because you definitely can’t go over your own contract.


When you were coming up, was there any female camaraderie between yourself and other prominent rappers?


Roxanne Shanté: No, I think a lot of record companies and even management kept a lot of female rappers separate from each other. They didn’t want you to know how much each other got paid, or what this one may be doing with their career. What was management? What was publishing? You know, it was just a way to keep us from educating each other. I’m sure female rappers still come into that today where the men in control pit them against each other.


Do you remember where you were the first time you heard somebody the term “female rapper?”


Roxanne Shanté: The first time I heard the term “female rapper,” I was at a battle, and someone pulled me to the side and said ‘You’re going to be the best female rapper ever.’ And I remember hearing that term, and it sounded like it was created to make women in the industry feel like then can only just go to that level. ‘You can’t say that you’re the best rapper, but you can be the best female rapper.’ Not me. I wanted to be the best rapper, period.


You returned to many phenomenal and painful memories while making Roxanne Roxanne with Pharrell in Queensbridge. Can you tell me about the experience?


Roxanne Shanté: It was incredible for me to be able to be there every day and be a part of it as they’re shooting it –making sure that it was organic, making sure that everything that I wanted to be told was in it.

In the end, we had to actually take some things out of the movie, because we weren’t sure if the world was ready for everything! We really wanted to make sure that it was a “daddy & daughter” movie, something where fathers could sit down and watch it with their daughters. And I took a lot of pride in that. I was also honored when so many fathers told me ‘I watched it with my daughter and my wife.’ I really love the way that it turned out.


Before we close, what was your take on Kendrick and Drake?


Roxanne Shanté: I loved it. I have a certain feeling about hip hop where I’ve always seen it as a sport. So I love to see when they really make sport out of it, challenge each other, and see how it elevates lyricism.


Do you have a top diss track?


Roxanne Shanté: Nas’ “Ether.”


What would you say is your toughest battle?


Roxanne Shanté: Well, I’m a two time breast cancer survivor, and I’ve never feared another emcee like I feared cancer. I’ve never worried about what was going to happen on stage. I’ve never had any fear about a show or if anyone was going to make a record against me.

When it comes to a battle where you really don’t know what the outcome is, then that was definitely my toughest battle. But standing here on the other side of it twice, I can say that I really never lost one battle.


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