Passion of the Weiss Top 50 Rap Albums of the ’00s: 10-01
10. 50 Cent — Get Rich or Die Tryin’ (2003)
50 Cent has somehow gone from beloved gangster rap underdog (Vice magazine was one of his earliest champions) to tolerated mainstream icon (complaints about Get Rich or Die Tryin’ the movie were surprisingly muted) to sneered-at, underperforming rap cliché, all in about half a decade. Critics loved him when he was telling us how to rob Keith Sweat, but when he bought Rick Ross’ baby mama a fur coat, well, that was over the line. (As for the pubestached youth, they’re not entirely sure what they think of him these days.) Regardless, Get Rich or Die Tryin’ will surely still sound good in 20 years and will likely hold up as the work that most successfully harnessed the dying genre of gangsta rap’s commercial potential. Though it is more light-hearted than Eminem’s albums and tougher than Dre’s albums, it will ultimately be remembered as—to paraphrase R.A. the Rugged Man—that album you and your five-year-old, white, female cousin could both enjoy. From “P.I.M.P.”’s steel drums to “In Da Club”’s birthday-party lead-in to the masterful hip hop power ballad (all too rare, aren’t they?) “21 Questions,” there was something for every family gathering. As for the heads, well, you couldn’t find any more sinister summer-blazers than “What Up Gangsta” and “Wanksta.” The beauty of 50’s image was that, although you believed he would shoot his adversaries in the head, you also believed that the two of you would be fast friends. That’s a fine line to walk, and one he hasn’t walked since.—Ben Westhoff
MP3: 50 Cent-”Heat”
09. J Dilla — Donuts (2006)
There’s a tall stack of classic hip hop records that stand heavy with the weight of their creators’ reflections on mortality, but few of them are as immediately affected by it as the self-eulogy of Donuts. It’s the sound of a restlessly evolving producer realizing he no longer has all the time in the world, and using what he has left to summarize everything he loved about making music. It’s there in the heartbreak of a longing vocal from Dionne Warwick or the Escorts or the Three Degrees, the retro-futuristic aspirations of a vintage electronic Raymond Scott composition, the sophisticated funk bounce of Kool & the Gang, the call-to-arms siren scream of Mantronix—all connecting in the framework of what may be the perfect, final culmination of hip hop sample culture.
—Nate Patrin
MP3: J Dilla-”Workinonit”
08. Jay-Z — The Black Album (2003)
As of this writing, I don’t know who won the poll. But I bet it wasn’t Jay-Z. And here’s why: Rap fans are snobs. “Real” rap fans (say that they) want to keep rap out of top 40 and away from the mainstream. Jay himself even bragged, on “99 Problems,” that “I got beef with radio . . . they don’t play my hits/I don’t give a shit.” But that’s a lie on an otherwise brutally honest album. In truth, everyone wants to be loved, and when our heroes become successful, we dig it, too.
As for content, although Biggie did a semi-autobio on his first joint, The Black Album spanned from day one to retirement—showing Jay-Z change from thug to poet, expressing love and vulnerability between bursts of braggadocio and toughness. Did Jay really retire? Of course not. No one expected him to. But the Jay who came back was a
different artist—older and more introspective.
Perhaps I’m wrong. Maybe The Black Album will win this poll, or will be the highest-ranked Jay-Z album. But I doubt it. To most of us, that’s like putting Sergeant Pepper’s above The White Album. One is all hits, the other is cutting edge and cool. But when nobody’s around, honestly, which one do you listen to more?
—Ekko (Berkeley Place)
MP3: Jay-Z-”What More Can I Say”
07. Kanye West – Graduation (2007)
Kanye West is the hip hop Kevin Smith, a guy who works with peers more talented than he, an artist with great ideas that isn’t scared to fail, an advocate for gay rights, and most importantly a devotee of artsy dick and fart jokes.
College Dropout was Kanye’s Clerks, an album about the college you skipped out on while you’re working the grave shift, still ain’t making shit, eating Salsa Sharks and playing roof hockey with GLC and Consequence. Late Registration was definitely Mallrats, a chance for bigger things now that everyone (Miramax/Def Jam) was paying attention. Sure there were some memorable moments (break out hit “Gold Digger” is then-newbie Jason Lee as Brodie) but both failed when attempting to overcharm and please everyone. Which means Kevin Smith’s Chasing Amy was most certainly Kanye’s third LP, Graduation.
Let’s be honest: we listen to Kanye for the beats, the same way we watch Kevin Smith films for the dialogue. Chasing Amy is my favorite Kevin Smith film because of its writing, just as Graduation is my favorite Kanye LP because of the hybrid of chipmunk soul and cold electronic textures via Daft Punk and DJ Toomp. Both movie and album are built on a very basic idea and they execute like a well-greased guillotine.
They are not perfect pieces: Amy looks like shit thanks to its $250K budget and “Drunk and Hot Girls” still sucks thanks to pre-Auto Tune. Ben Affleck is the least believable stoner of all time. “Homecoming” loses to “Beach Chair” for Best Use of Apple’s Dad. Hooper X should’ve gotten his own movie by now. Lil’ Wayne spits the only guest bars on Graduation and gets chomped by George McFly’s adopted black son.
But the payoffs are the most rewarding of each guy’s career.
“Flashing Lights” is still beautiful, full of color, 2 step drums, gallant strings, and a butter smooth hook from Dwele. The bridge of “I Wonder” is glossy, joyous, and sincere. The colossal pause during “Everything I Am” as you wait for OG Chris Martin to bring in Chuck D’s “Here… we go again!” still gives me goosebumps. I’ll pick “Stronger”and “The Good Life” on the JumboTron at sporting events over Supermanning a hoe any given Sunday.
808s and Heartbreak turned Kanye into George Michael. Judd Apatow and Seth Rogen have pushed Smith into near-OG status. Graduation will probably be the last “lyrical” album of Kanye’s career as Amy will be the final “lesbian describes fisting to uptight suburbanite comic geeks” scene in Smith’s canon. ‘Ye and Silent Bob added more colors to bigger projects, but their melding of precise working parts on their third projects cemented their status as polarizing pop stars who always have something to say and usually pull it off.
Snoogins! (My apologies.)
One second…
Toomp killed this shit. (That’s better.)
—Zilla Rocca
06. Eminem — The Marshall Mathers LP (2000)
There’s never been a rapper like Eminem and you can tell by his lack of imitators. Really, who? Asher Roth? Bubba Sparxxx? Fred Durst? The only artist who’s ever worked an aesthetic even remotely similar to Eminem is ‘Weird Al’ Yankovic, and you can tell by how chagrined Em was at his competition taking him on, denying Yankovic permission to make a video for his “Lose Yourself” parody. Eminem’s so vain about his wits that he doesn’t even beef with rappers, he spars with other comedy acts. If anyone’s still perplexed why he took aim at Triumph the Insult Comic Dog—a fucking puppet we all cried—it’s because no one outfunnies the funny man. It’s not the smartest tack, but it is the least fair, and most misanthropic way, which makes it gangsta.
Eminem’s career was made taking down soft targets: lightweight rappers like Benzino and Everlast, lightweight bystanders like Moby, LFO, Versace, Liberace, and weak characters like his wife and his mother. He found a kinship in 50 Cent, who also made his name taking sledgehammers to knife-wielders: Ja Rule, Fat Joe, Rick Ross. But the reason Eminem’s no ordinary schoolyard bully is because his scenarios are ridiculous to the point of satire, and satirical to the point of political, but not so political that the message goes over people’s heads; just enough people that he can snag those who are in on the joke and those who ain’t. Perfect.
No matter what I say as the Knowledgeable Critic, there will always be people who hear “Kill You” or “Criminal” as a license to hurt somebody. And there will always be people who get the joke. But most will generally understand that Eminem, while in on the joke, is hardly immune to it himself. These contradictions and imperfections keep most casual-to-excited hangers-on from admitting The Marshall Mathers LP is the scariest, most exciting, original and possibly greatest record produced during their lifetime. That’s okay, who would want it to be? Take refuge in the filler tracks with D12 or Dre bait like Xzibit and Snoop. Take comfort in the now-provocative-now-tiresome downturn that befell Encore and everything on for doing what he’s always done rather than leading us to the promised land. Eminem is selling imperfection. Hilarious, politically incorrect, human and disturbingly inhuman imperfection.
That imperfection often rides with hooks, as on the bouncy first single “The Real Slim Shady,” or triumphs of craft like the stalker fable “Stan.” But it’s mostly hunger and appetite and a nearly Olympic desire to keep topping himself, upping every ante and distending topics into creepy, vile places if that’s what it takes to close off any other remaining entrances to his summit. No matter how difficult or uncomfortable Marshall Mathers gets to listen to, it is always outdoing everything expected of it for this reason. The opening “Kill You” is the definitive depiction of the cycle: “You don’t wanna fuck with Shady/ Cuz Shady will fucking kill you/ (laughs).” Repeat to finish, past him raping his grandmother, disposing of his wife’s body, politely turning down a fan and telling him to treat his pregnant lady better, accepting fellatio from Insane Clown Posse. All of which are funny as hell, too good for rap and often comedy too. If that’s not an honor worth defending from a puppet dog, I don’t know what is.
—Dan Weiss
MP3: Eminem-”I’m Back”
05. Outkast — Stankonia (2000)
For my sixteenth birthday, in February of 2000, I got a Diamond Rio mp3 player. It held 32 megabytes of memory, or about 12 songs. During my sophomore year, those songs included “Project Chick,” “Forgot About Dre,” and whatever DMX songs were current. It also held the first single off Stankonia, “Bombs Over Baghdad.” From the moment the twinkling synths were interrupted by Andre’s breathless “one, two, one, two, three, YEAH,” I was hooked. Hooked to the point where I would spend anatomy class after anatomy class memorizing both verses, wondering how to do the ragtop, and what exactly a “power music electric revival” constituted. The song sounded like nothing I’d ever heard before, and to this day, it’s my favorite rap song ever. And with Stankonia, it’s just the start.
Were Stankonia to include just its singles (“B.O.B.,” “Ms. Jackson,” and “So Fresh, So Clean”) and an hour of filler, it likely would have merited inclusion on this list. Thankfully, these songs are surrounded by even bigger triumphs. Massive, towering songs that owe their success to tiny details that teach you something new upon each listen. The change-up in “Humble Mumble.” Big Boi’s sage relationship advice contained in the ad-libs of “We Luv Dees Hoes.” The entirely new dictionary Andre creates using only different iterations of stank and funky.
Stankonia is witty, wide-ranging, and revolutionary (Kanye and Lil’ Wayne as we know them today don’t exist without this record). Previous releases had only hinted at the experimentation that pervades Stankonia. And while that freedom eventually lead to joint solo albums rife with refutations of a break-up (and a Grammy), on Stankonia Big Boi and Andre are together. And when Big Boi and Andre are together, we’re winning. That’s funky.
—Trey Kerby
MP3: Outkast-”B.O.B.”
04. Kanye West — The College Dropout (2004)
“Do the fans want the feeling of A Tribe Called Quest, but all the got left is this guy called West?” Well, he was more than that. He was more than the first rapper with a Benz and a backpack too, more than chipmunk soul and a broken jaw, more even then songs about insecure overconsumption and conflicted Christianity. On each track of his sprawling debut The College Dropout, Kanye West proved himself to be more.
He called himself the “Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer of the Roc” back in those days, and made cracks about how he hoarded his best beats for himself, but West’s trademark arrogance had a different quality on his debut album, back when he really was the only one convinced he could become a superstar on par with the best in the game. Sure, back in 2003 and 2004, we knew he could produce—we had seen his name in tiny print on the liner notes on Jay-Z records—and, OK, maybe we were prepared to acknowledge “Through the Wire” was a clever idea. “Slow Jamz,” too, was irresistible and catchy and had a good joke about Michael Jackson, but it was really a Twista song, wasn’t it?
Then “Self Conscious” hit MTV—this was all beforeDropout had even dropped, remember—and it got a little harder to dismiss this guy as a beat maker with ideas above his station. He had some good jokes, (“She couldn’t afford a car so she named her daughter Alexis,”) and some awkward rhymes (“She had hair so long that it looked like weave/then she cut it all off now she look like Eve”) but neither distracted from the earnestness of his critical self-analysis or the unexpectedly empathetic portrait of a young and adrift undergraduate who hasn’t worked out how to grow up. But even that could not prepare us for the album to come.
The College Dropout was made to be a classic. West could not allow himself anything less. And that is why it is too long, why it contains a couple too many skits hammering home its anti-education theme, and why it crams in too many different ideas to be the kind of cohesive masterpiece that is The Blueprint or Illmatic or Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers). But it is as worthy as those records because it makes sense that an album about its creator forcing himself to surpass everybody’s low expectations should try a little too hard.
Kanye will never sound effortless. His rhymes will never sound organic like those of Nas, or have Jay-Z’s off-the-cuff insouciance. West became a great rapper because he strived, and because he cared enough to strive. The College Dropout had to be good enough lyrically to prove West was more than a producer, and it contained all the carefully contrived wordplay and punch lines he needed to get himself taken seriously. It even has, in “Never Let Me Down,” a track on which he betters Jay-Z, the best in the game.
But it’s not the emceeing that makes this record such a vital and important musical artifact of the young 21st century. It’s because, opening salvo be damned, Kanye West cares. He feels the indignity of working a bullshit retail position when he has far more talent than the manager patting him down in the stockroom. He’s genuinely outraged that “racism still alive, they just be concealing it,” and that black folks “can’t make it to ballots to choose leadership.” He needs you to understand the importance his family and his faith holds for him. And he cared that his record should be great. Through sheer force of will, it is.
—Jonathan Bradley
MP3: Kanye West ft. Talib Kweli & Common-”Get Em High”
03. Madvillain — Madvillainy
In the early parts of the decade, rumors of a collaborative album between hip-hop underground stalwarts Madlib and MF DOOM nearly sent fans into convulsions. The former, with his dusky break beats and obsessively crate-dug samples, developed an output so vast, it proved that even those who presumably smoke at least three-quarters of a pound of weed every day can be prolific, driven artists. As for the man born Daniel Dumile, he reemerged from a self-imposed exile wearing a mask and peppering his superlatively-complex rhyme schemes with third-person references to himself. With the classic Operation: Doomsday under his belt, it seemed as though DOOM turned not only MC’ing, but the idea of being an MC, into high-art.
The few tracks on Madvillainy that were redone in response to the leak of unmastered Madvillain joints sound a little different than in their original form; DOOM’s delivery is slower, more blunted. They come from a voice far deeper and less fiery, and yet they sound more cohesive with Madlib’s blunt-stained, art-damaged quasi-boom-bap. Listen to DOOM’s intonation as the assertive horn stabs toward the end of “All Caps” split the beat apart at the seams. What about how Villain’s low growl trudges its way through the eerie swamp of “Meat Grinder”? In these versions, DOOM’s voice compliments the music, instead of beating the beats up like before.
And really, cohesion is part of what makes Madvillainy such a classic record; the crackling vinyl that steadily courses through the melodic madness and cartoonish vocal samples is never interrupted by a glossy synth beat. The instrumentals, including and especially the sinister thump of certified banger “Supervillain Theme,“ give the vocal-driven tracks a bit of breathing room. The only hook—and the word “hook” is being used very liberally in this instance—on the entire album is a bizarre, seemingly pitch-shifted gremlin repeating the word “raid.” It can be presumed that “cohesive” could be synonymous with “anti-mainstream” here, as the back-to-basics, “shut the fuck up and rap” aesthetic is how the record raises the bar as far as rap albums go.
If The Source was still relevant in 2004, it could have literally made every DOOM verse on Madvillainy into a Hip Hop Quotable and have been set for the remainder of their tenure as a magazine. In his Pitchfork review, Rollie Pemberton, a talented MC in his own right, headed each paragraph with a DOOM lyric, something that hardly, if ever, happens in music criticism. I mean, what can you say about DOOM that he hasn’t said about himself? He holds the cold one like he holds the old gun. He’s a hopeless romancer with the dopest flow stanzas. He’s giving y’all nothing but the lick like two broads. This could literally go on for days. But even amidst the punch line-fury, DOOM can step out of “himself” and into the shoes of a vulnerable Viktor Vaughn, who berates a cheating lass, but with a clever, meta twist: “That’s you if you want a dude who wear a mask all day.”
Madvillainy is the prime example of a super group being far more than the sum of its parts. This is no cynical cash-in from two huge names; this is a statement that forced fans to scribble their descriptions of each of its creators, replacing the word “genius” with “legendary.” Madvillain is the rare work of two solo artists coming together and hashing out a masterpiece so flawless, each man has yet to surpass its brilliance.
—Douglas Martin
02. Ghostface Killah - Supreme Clientele
I’m still uncertain as to what inspired G-Unit lapdog Tony Yayo to say Supreme Clientele was actually written by Theodore Unit lapdog Superb, but if his intent was to better “So Seductive” in terms of making people give a shit about him, the endeavor was a wild success. It’s hard to imagine too many rap blogs without a high degree of fluency in Supreme Clientele, and inevitably, Yayo’s claims were attacked mercilessly and unanimously.
But even amongst the more notable controversies surrounding authorship (Dave Grohl wrote I Get Wet! Kurt Cobain wrote Live Through This! To a far lesser extent, Gillie Da Kid wrote Tha Carter II!), this has to be the least plausible one ever. Imagine someone handing Ghostface a rhyme book with shit like “dick made the cover now count how many veins on it” with the implication, “naw, man—this is gonna be ill when you spit it. Trust me.”
The reason Supreme Clientele will be at the top of these kind of lists for years to come is that it’s the least likely record to be ghostwritten, as opposed to Ghost-written. Here, Ghostface bypassed all conventional conversational filters and just went straight from the cerebral cortex, his lyrics unhinged and unearthly, taking the listener to places that were at times frightening, but never less than thrilling. But he did so with a topical breadth that’s become Supreme Clientele’s most underrated aspect: plenty of critical favorites got weirder than Ghost, but you weren’t getting a straight up party rhyme like “Cherchez La Ghost” on an anticon. disc; on an El-P record, “Child’s Play” becomes “Stepfather Factory”; and whatever you want to call “Malcolm,” nobody was on that level. Of course, Supreme Clientele is more than happy to speak for itself : “Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious/Dociousaliexpifragalisticcalisuper/Cancun, catch me in the room, eatin grouper…” It goes great with a Remy Martin on diamonds.
—Ian Cohen
MP3: Ghostface Killah-”Nutmeg”
Sometimes there’s a man… I won’t say a hero ‘cause what’s a hero? Sometimes there’s a man and well, he’s the man for his time and place.
—The Stranger.
Go ahead and throw stones. He’s not spitting like on Reasonable Doubt. He bites lines. It didn’t sell like Volume 2. It’s too NY-centric. It’s maudlin and overly sentimental. “Ether” killed him. Eminem killed him. Eminem can’t produce. Kanye West and Just Blaze saved him. Kanye West and Just Blaze are overrated. Volume 3 is underrated. Chipmunk soul sucks. Who the hell is Bink? That Trackmasters beat is awful.
Doesn’t matter.
The Blueprint isn’t the best rap album of the decade because it’s faultless, but because it steamrolls over its faults so effortlessly. It’s the sound of a victory lap, the sound of an artist at the top of his game making the album he wanted to make, current trends be damned. It’s swagger personified. It’s Rocky beating the Russians. It’s Ali beating Frasier. It’s MJ winning a ring. It’s the fuckin’ Blueprint.
When they make Jay-Z’s biopic, they should end it here. Reasonable Doubt was Jay’s street life. Volume 1 was his transition from those streets to the fame. Volume 2 found him on top of the world and Volume 3 saw him getting restless, experimental, unsatisfied with being a pop rapper. The Dynasty was Jay putting on his fam, and The Blueprint?
That was his baby, the one with the BDP title. The one that made the Rawkus kids swallow their pride and pony up 15 bucks, the one that launched Chicago kid Kanye West’s career, the album that for one second had the entire Hip-Hop nation rallying around one king for what will probably be the last time.
Recorded in a matter of weeks and produced by a cast of then unknowns, The Blueprint set the tone for the decade, making and breaking careers. For Jay, it was his moment of glory, the album on which he finally stepped out of Biggie’s shadow and put all doubts about his legitimacy to rest once and for all. For Nas it was the spark that reignited a career. For Mobb Deep it’s the blow that derailed one. For Just Blaze and Kanye West it was a chance to bring back sampling to prominence in hip hop after nearly half a decade of keyboard beats. For Eminem it was a chance to go toe to toe with the one man who could match him lyrically and commercially. For Beanie Sigel, Freeway, The Young Gunz, Memphis Bleek and, yes, Cam’ron and the Diplomats, it literally was the blueprint on which their subsequent releases were modeled. But for Shaun Carter, the man behind the persona, it was a chance to reflect, to take stock, to look back and to grow up. The Blueprint was Jay-Z’s peak and in subsequent years, haters and aspirants to the throne would cackle that he’d subsequently gone old, soft and weak. That’s a debate for another time but one thing’s for certain: The Blueprint is where a wizened Shaun Carter’s concerns became bigger than rap.
I don’t even have to do this; you know the songs, they speak for themselves. The hulking bass of “The Takeover,” the Jackson 5 soul of “Izzo,” the buttery “Girls, Girls Girls,” the strident “U Don’t Know,” Timbaland rocking a breakbeat on “Hola Hovito,” “Heart of the City,” “Song Cry,” “Renegade,” it goes on. It’ll never get old, it’ll never go out of style and it’s absolutely timeless. It’s the fuckin’ Blueprint.
All of these are good reasons to have The Blueprint top out this list, but I’d like to share one more. On September 11th 2001, I took the bus downtown after school to pick up a vinyl copy from Off the Hook records. I’d been bugging them for weeks, asking if they’d have it on time (Canadian release dates for vinyl were always iffy) and the owner assured me they would, so I braved what then seemed like possible death in order to cop it on the first day. I remember walking through skyscrapers, people panicking, muttering, always looking up, and when I got to the store, I went in, found it and went straight for the register. The one guy running the shop was going nuts, trying to get news about family in NYC and frankly, he must have thought that this white kid was crazy thinking about records at a time like this. I went home, watched the news for a few hours and for the first time in my life, felt very, very worried. Not worried on some “I’m failing math” or “my parents are gonna break up” shit but adult worried. Like, “is this the end of the world” worried.
But then a funny thing happened.
I went upstairs, took the clear blue vinyl out of the sleeve and played the record. I’m not going to pretend it was the first time I heard it—I’d had the MP3 version for a few days—but sitting in my room listening to the album, suddenly everything was alright again and all that mattered was Jay vs. Nas and sampling vs synths. And nearly 10 years later, I know that no matter how shitty things get on any given day, I can go home, put on the album and, for 60 minutes, that’s all that’ll matter again.
—Sach O
Stumble It!
August 7th, 2009 at 6:21 am
i bought the blueprint on 9/11, too. my mom took me to the mall. it was a fucking ghost town. even though she’s a devout christian (and has always hated rap records because of the swearing, anyway), she let me listen to it in the car. she knew how important it was for me to have a little bit of escapism after my bronx-based paternal grandmother cheated death by deciding not to go on a long-planned visit to the twin towers that day. she saw my eyes light up when i first heard, “your reach ain’t long enough, dunny!”
she saw that record change my life before her eyes.
August 7th, 2009 at 6:35 am
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August 7th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Wow. That was a surprise! I was CERTAIN that #1 would be either: Donuts, Welcome To Detroit, Jaylib, Madvillain or The College Dropout. Not one Dizzie Rascal album made it but The Streets did? Another surprise.
I guess I gotta listen the “The Blueprint” again sometime soon. I was reviewing albums for Fever Magazine back in ‘01 & got 2 copies of Killarmy’s “Fear, Love & War”…the WRONG album to drop on 9/11. It killed their careers. Listen to it if you don’t understand why.
One.
August 7th, 2009 at 7:06 am
Very very thorough list…I NEVER agree with these nor do I make these kinds of list, but I must say if I had to, our top 3 would probably be identical. And I had nearly the same experience on 9/11 with the Blueprint.
Well done, sir
August 7th, 2009 at 7:29 am
Some of my faves didn’t make it, but I can’t really argue with the list compiled here
August 7th, 2009 at 8:12 am
I didn’t have it in my own personal top 10 (I only had 5 of the ten.) but I’m really sort of happy that Get Rich Or Die Tryin’ made the top ten list. I’m not sure why. It just seems just, somehow.
August 7th, 2009 at 8:47 am
Interesting list to say the least. I would had Kanye’s Late Registration in the top ten and switch that out with some other changes, but it seems this list played out like it should have. I want to jump up and riot over some choices but I can’t and that folks is the definition of a intelligent and cohesive list.
August 7th, 2009 at 8:49 am
man. what a list.
August 7th, 2009 at 8:55 am
I can’t believe I was right in my prediction that BP was going to be number one.. It just felt right that Hov take the top spot. I couldn’t think of any other album that deserved it.
Supreme Clientele is an excellent choice at #2, personally I think it even gives BP a run for its money but it doesn’t blend hip-hop and crossover appeal as well as BP. My only semi-beef is putting Madvillainy over College Dropout. They are interchangeable in my mind, so I’m not too tight over the order.
“The Blueprint isn’t the best rap album of the decade because it’s faultless, but because it steamrolls over its faults so effortlessly.”
Well-put. This whole list was a great read, thanks for organizing it Jeff!
Peace,
Dom
August 7th, 2009 at 9:08 am
“Supreme Clientele is an excellent choice at #2, personally I think it even gives BP a run for its money but it doesn’t blend hip-hop and crossover appeal as well as BP.”
Ah yes, because this is what makes Illmatic such a triumph.
August 7th, 2009 at 9:36 am
The top 10 withstanding,(I only like half of those albums) the whole is overall agreeable, like I’ve said, but completely safe and boring.
Nothing from left field, which is some bullshit in my book. Not a Dalek, or Anti-pop, nothing from the anticon camp, nothing rap based that was really experimental. 2 Streets records, but not on Dizzee record, (that’s a str8 up joke) but I digress. I respect the writers here I do, but maybe you could’ve got breihan or Brandon get some contrarian shit up in here maybe a Gucci mixtape, or well 4 Doom records, (MM Food over Geedorah, laughable) why not add the special herbs box set on here for good measure? Also something like like 20 people made all the best rap albums in the past ten years? Sure!
The thing this list confirms is that rap as a genre for the last 10 years had the worst creative time of any genre mainly because if it was alright it was, a.) pop music or b.)not actually rap or hip-hop.
The most overlooked thing here is that rap/hip hop lent out it’s creative aspect to other genre’s in 00’s in way that that the scope of which will be hard to codify for at least a few years.
There were better records than these made the last ten years, ones that probably because of a partially not hip-hop or rap were excluded. If you think in the next decade you can have a rap list like this totally vanilla and true to this rigid formula, it will be a total shit list for sure.
August 7th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Some of the best stuff you cats have done, truly.
Now when are you going to get off your collective ass and start on the best of the 90s and 80s?
It’s your own fault, really. Get the kids hooked and you know we’re going to want more.
August 7th, 2009 at 9:46 am
comparing graduation to kevin smith films? huh?
August 7th, 2009 at 9:49 am
Wow. 2000 really was the greatest rap year ever. Ghostface, Eminem, Stankonia, & Quasimoto, not to mention Train of Thought, The W and ‘If You Must’.
Great List, truly shocked that Supreme Clientele isnt number 1.
August 7th, 2009 at 10:07 am
NOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! There must be a ‘generation gap’ or something. Ghostface is top ten easily but the rest…
August 7th, 2009 at 10:15 am
I was going to try and be articulate, but Jason got it dead on, so I’m just gonna co-sign his post and leave it at that.
August 7th, 2009 at 10:40 am
I made a similar complaint to Jason’s when this blog did the best rap albums of all time list, but I take that back. These lists poll a lot of people, which squashes out the fringe stuff. We’ve all heard the Anticon albums etc, and if enough of us liked them they would be on here. There’s no conspiracy. Go make your own top 50 underrated albums list and put all the crappy Gucci mixtapes that you want on there. P.S. and duh, every writer on this list is a contrarian.
August 7th, 2009 at 11:16 am
The list was a fun read. I’m with Doc Zeus on Get Rich or Die Tryin’ - the oddness of that record is that it’s somehow both epochal and underrated… I’d flip Supreme Clientele with Fishscale though - also loved JW’s non-linear reword review of Ghost’s non-linear rhyming… Otherwise, Drought 3 would easily be in my top 3. And no Missy?
August 7th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I’m still trying to wrap my head around the notion that a list that features Edan, The Streets and a Quasimoto record could possibly be considered “safe.”
If we are going by the Noz brand tortured logic that this list is “elitist” because it features a bunch of obscure indie rap albums that nobody outside of a few like-minded critics like, then you can’t possibly claim this list is “safe.” If nobody agrees with you than you haven’t made the safe pick. The sheer amount of carping this list has engendered basically voids that point.
Having a list with two records by “the Streets” is the basic definition of “contrarian.” It just is.
August 7th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Jason:
This list is safe and boring because it’s about selecting quality materials that have stood the test of this decade. Why lie and pick a Sole album for the top 10 when we as writers honestly don’t fuck with his albums like that 5-6 years later? I had NERD and cLOUDDEAD in my original list but after thinking about it, I couldn’t put them in the top 50 RAP albums of this decade, not by a longshot. Key word is “rap” and in my mind, Nerd and Dose One’s projects, which I love, don’t fit the criteria as well as Masta Ace or Edan or 50 Cent or Kanye.
And to the rest of you fucking clowns that pop shit on Twitter about this list–”males shouldn’t be jealous, that’s a female’s trait”. It’s cool to disagree on opinions but trying to air people out or give advice to a site that has always strived to provide top notch content over bullshit–fuck outta here!
August 7th, 2009 at 11:47 am
Much obliged. It’s always fun to be reminded of all the dope shit I’m neglecting to listen to. I have a “shit to get around to” playlist on itunes that now has Lord Willin’, Purple Haze, and the Black Album on it, among other things.
I think Supreme Clientele is the best album made this decade, by far. That album knocked me on my ass when it came out and I’m still recovering. I’ve still never heard anything like it.
My #2 would definitely be Madvillainy. I’d also put Pretty Toney much higher.
A couple overlooked ones:
I Pledge Allegiance to the Grind II
Dwight Spitz
Petestrumentals
August 7th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Congrats on putting together this list — great fun to read, consistently excellent writing, and it actually prompted a fairly heated debate around my apartment, which is always a good sign.
And while personal opinions can (and should) differ, anyone who disputes that the top 5 here are the most significant rap records of the decade is just, like…wrong.
August 7th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Damn… That is a great list. I know I’ve been thinking in my head of what was the best of the decade and y’all pretty much nailed.
Just one thing? Where is the first Foreign Exchange record?
Thank’s to all the writers and contributors for putting this together and keeping the ever lasting Hip Hop debates alive!
August 7th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
So everyone’s forgotten Europass already, huh
August 7th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
this top 10 is money, my hats off to all the contributors. just one thing…where is dalek’s abandoned language? mr. weiss, i know you can back me up on that one.
August 7th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
I voted for Europass–I should’ve voted for it higher though.
I agree that Abandoned Language definitely belongs, though I fucked up and forgot to include it on my ballot. That’s my bad, but a great record nonetheless that I’ll have to include next week in our What-Was-Missed roundup.
August 7th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Things that could have been on the list:
Taste the Secret
The Minstrel Show
Nas Untitled
O.S.T.
Nia or The Craft
Black Milk’s Tronic
Sean Price Monkey Barz
The Bar Exam 2 Mixtape
Saigon’s All in a Days Work
something by Skillz
Things Go Better with RJ and Al
Ok, feel free to rip me for these, as I’m sure many will
August 7th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
“I voted for Europass–I should’ve voted for it higher though.”
That’s problem the number one problem of the list. It’s a structural problem where if somebody voted for a fringe album exceptionally high(like I did for Disposable Arts because pound for pound thats my favorite album of the decade, its far more likely to reach the list.
It’s how we inexplicably ended up with four Doom records on the list when I guarantee NOBODY thought he deserved more than two.
August 7th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
If I may put my 2 cents in about the selection.
The list wasn’t “picked” so much as voted on. We invited several bloggers and writers to weigh in with their own lists, all of their voters’ opinions were counted equally (except if they declined to participate as some individuals did) and the albums were tallied up with more weight being given to an pick depending on how high it was placed on each individual’s list. There were no albums vetoed and zero favors given out to albums that didn’t get enough support.
So by definition, this is a product of consensus. We never said it wasn’t. These are the albums that a fairly large group of critics agreed on. We ALL had picks that didn’t make it and we ALL disagreed with some of the stuff that did. But the point wasn’t to pull a list out of our ass based on our tastes and call it the best in an attempt to win cool points: the idea was to poll a large number of people we respect and see what albums survived when the votes were tallied up.
There were nearly 450 albums that were voted for: these 50 got the most props. I guarantee that no individual’s list had this combination of albums because this isn’t an individual’s list: it’s the result of a process. Another process (be it differently democratic or entirely totalitarian) would have given a different list. I invite anyone who wants to make an anti-canon to give it a shot: hopefully I can hear a good rap album that I missed this decade. In the meantime, we ain’t done quite yet, I’ll leave it at that.
Anyways, I hope you enjoyed this project of ours (and based on the feedback we’ve gotten, the vast majority of you did). It was a good times on our end and I’d like to send an extra special shout out to Jonathan and Jeff for putting it together and everyone who took time out of their schedules to vote for their favorites and contribute write ups. Respect also goes out to anyone who disagrees with the methods to our madness in constructive and respectful ways: it’s all good.
Oh and to all you other cats sendin shots on twitter, you only get half a bar… (bar retracted in light of the more civil post-Twitter debate currently going on. Hurray for constructive dialogue! - Sach)
August 7th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
This list got me to finally listen to Cam’ron, no mean feat, and renewed interest in some albums I thought were ok at the time but I can now see have aged well
August 7th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I’m damn proud to be involved with this.
That said, I’m still kinda bummed that the following didn’t make it:
Killer Mike - I Pledge Allegiance To The Grind II
Black Milk - Tronic
Devin the Dude - Just Tryin’ Ta Live
August 7th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
Sach-
I think this list was put together as best it could be and this is what consensus looks like, I feel ya. I am not saying my list would have been populated with anything much different than what the contributors you had.
I like the list, and the writing, good job. With that said what I am getting at is this: What is the definition of rap today? I am sure with over 450 different choices from all these writers that there was a lot of variance in the definition for each writer. However, and this is my main point it is precisely that the consensus among the entire group of you had lead to a list, although while quite good, shows a narrow definition of what rap is today, again amongst the whole of you. I think the definition should be expanded to include ANY album in which rapping is central be it cLOUDDEAD to Buck 65.
Zilla-
You illustrate my point/question beautifully. Your “criteria” for rap is different than mine.What is your criteria? Is it technical or topical, both? cLOUDDEAD is a rap album, simply put cause Dose and Why? rap a lot on it, don’t they? That it doesn’t come anywhere close to what is standard rap in both substance or beats doesn’t matter to me so much. It is good, and therefor deserving to be considered alongside a Jay Z, Nas, or any of more traditional standard bearers. I just thinking having a narrow definition in the end is harmful to both Ghostface type of rap as it to other artists using rap in different ways in their music. Gotta give you some love for your shadowboxers album, it’s great reg ipod rotation.
August 7th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Last one before I bounce
Buck 65’s Talking Honky Blues and CloudDEAD did get votes actually (as did Gucci Mane’s Murder was the Case and The Mind of Mannie Fresh for those keeping score on the other end), they just didn’t make the Top 50. The individual lists will be up later.
I think it goes back to the idea of consensus: some people really like CloudDEAD other people really like Gucci Mane but people meet in the middle with Supreme Clientele. As for the debate on whether rap critics’ idea of the middle is skewed underground or not, well that’s the current debate. I say no, others say yes and as long as it’s an intelligent debate, I’m all for it.
August 7th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
great list. i agree- jay-z, doom, ghost, oukast and the clipse sum up my favorite hip-hop of the past 10 years.
word.
August 7th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Zilla dropped N.E.R.D. in favor of 50 and Masta Ace? my day is ruined
nah. really though, great projects that tend to get overlooked in favor of the Clipse as far as the ‘Tunes more off-center work goes i think. even if they don’t meet some set rock songwriting standard. but i basically listen to them as great beats, goofy singing.
some stuff i don’t agree with, but nice writeups, “The Blueprint” one especially. sums it up.
August 7th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Jeff, is there any chance the individual ballot-makers ballots could be posted separately (with their permission I guess)? I think it’d give a sorta more expansive overview of the decade and highlight a lot of the albums people are probably getting butthurt about not being on here. I understand that’s maybe not the point and it could undermine the actual list, but I’d 100% love to read the individual ballots.
August 7th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Definitely. That’s been the intent from the get-go. We should have it up sometime within the next few hours. Tomorrow at the latest.
August 7th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
At the very least, a fun read. Kudos to you guys for putting this together.
A few thoughts:
1) Underrated comment is from Maxipi. The fact SO MANY of top rated albums all came from 2000-20001 is deserving of its own thread. It could be that sometimes, things look more obvious in hindsight and that enough time has gone by where we end up respecting older material simply b/c we’ve sat with it longer.
However, I’d bet big money that if you had done this same exercise in 1999, you’d see a lot of mid-decade >early-decade material being repped. So I don’t think it’s a hindsight issue.
My guess - and this is purely a guess - but what the consensus thinks = hip-hop is based around a series of stylistic choices that found their zenith in the early part of the ’00s and simply haven’t been as potent since then. That says something about hip-hop. It says something about “us.” I, for one, am very interested to know which (hip hop vs. us) is more pertinent in explaining this trend.
That said, I’d be kind of bummed that all the best hip-hop of the decade happened at its very beginning (and I think one can make a very good argument for suggesting that 2000 should be seen as the “end of the 90s” more than the “beginning of the 00s”. Just saying.
This also segues into Jason’s comments and I think he has it partially right - not everyone’s criteria for hip-hop is the same and what you find is a particular consensus around a series of stylistic choices that others may not align with. I don’t think there’s 450 different definitions of rap. Rap/hip-hop is pretty simple to define: dudes rapping over beats. Voila.
The difficulty lies not in definition. It lies in *style* and that is where hip-hop has 450 flavors. This list is clearly weighted towards a NY state of mind. That’s fine by me - it’s my men-tal too but if you gathered a bunch of bloggers living around Macon or Miami, I bet we’d see some VERY different choices. While I think the overall list of people invited to contribute to this project wasn’t monolithic, it probably tended towards a certain level of homogeneity of agreement around style. And that, as Jason is trying to point out, creates some predictability in the choices.
I do think he’s being unfair in calling the list “boring. That may be true for him but any consensus list is bound to excise the kind of outliers he might find “exciting.”
As to DocZeus’ point: Quasimoto is not an outlier, anymore than “Donuts”ending up on this list is an outlier. Quas is an easy, consensus choice for a bunch o’ rap critics.
August 7th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
O.W.
Best points about this so far. To continue with the early 2000s=end of 90s thing, it’s remarkable how many of the artists on this list were actively recording in the 90s, (or if not are consciously looking backwards). I’m not that interested in debating whether these albums really represent the artists at their best (though for douchiness’ sake Black Bastards is better than any of the 4 Doom albums here) but I do wonder whether the contributors think the albums here represent the best of these artists. If not (as I suspect in more than a few cases) what does celebrating the best of a decade mean? The list gives the impression that the 00s were just like the 90s, only slightly worse. This isn’t helped by the exclusion of, say, Young Jeezy (who I don’t even like that much but is hugely influential this decade) but it’s frustrating when I’m trying to think of alternatives for items in the list and they’re 8ball and MJG albums that aren’t nearly as good as Comin’ Out Hard or On Top of the World.
August 8th, 2009 at 12:17 am
Just to make a small correction to Sach’s comment about the methodology; we didn’t weight higher-placed albums higher. We were going to, but in the end, it seemed too artificial, and I couldn’t settle on a formula that removed that artificality. A number one vote received 50 points, a number two 49 and etc.
That resulted in some oddities; for instance, I’m pretty sure that’s the sole reason “Born Like This” and “Food and Liquor” made the list. Neither received any top ten votes, but did get many nods farther down people’s lists. They seemed to be the kind of albums that a lot of people liked but very few people loved.
By contrast, if you look at nos. 51-60, there are a lot of things that only just missed out, but received many high marks. There was far more enthusiasm (but ultimately less points) for The B.Coming (#51, 3 points behind Deltron3030), Tha Carter II (#52, 4 points behind), Let’s Get Free (#53), Just Tryin’ To Live (#54), Boy in Da Corner (#55), 808s & Heartbreak (#57), Let’s Get It: Thug Motivation 101 (#58) and Diplomatic Immunity (#60).
I could have fiddled the lower end of the list around, but I didn’t really think it right for me to dump Born Like This for The B.Coming when more people voted for the former. I think the Beanie Sigel record is better, but who am I to make the judgment? Other voters have just as much right to have their choices count as I do.
August 8th, 2009 at 4:01 am
“The B.Coming (#51, 3 points behind Deltron3030), Tha Carter II (#52, 4 points behind), Let’s Get Free (#53), Just Tryin’ To Live (#54), Boy in Da Corner (#55), 808s & Heartbreak (#57), Let’s Get It: Thug Motivation 101 (#58) and Diplomatic Immunity (#60).”
So if anything pure random chance left off those albums. Like if one voter placed it a few spots higher, it would’ve ended up on the list.
August 8th, 2009 at 4:17 am
“As to DocZeus’ point: Quasimoto is not an outlier, anymore than “Donuts”ending up on this list is an outlier. Quas is an easy, consensus choice for a bunch o’ rap critics.”
Really, I know its Madlib and all but I don’t think I’ve even heard “The Unseen.” A Quasimo to record might not be an “outlier” to the critical community but taken from the community at a whole it’s the basic definition of one.
I mean isn’t Quasimoto, Madlib rapping through Helium? How is that NOT contrarian.
August 8th, 2009 at 8:07 am
DocZeus: When that Quasimoto album dropped, there was a flood of positive support from it by practically every rap critic I knew in that era *except* for the hardcore NY-till-I-die set. It was not obscure by any means; Stonesthrow was then - as it is now - one of the biggest of the “indies”.
I sort of hear you about the “contrarian” angle but I don’t think people backed it because they were being contrarian. I think they liked the album, partially, because it felt unexpectedly creative and different. But, in 2000, it wasn’t remotely as left to field as Anticon.
As for what is or is not an “outlier” - I’m just saying, statistically speaking, polling a bunch of rap bloggers/critics, Quasimoto isn’t out of the norm. If this poll had been taken in 2005, I’d guarantee the album would have been much higher on the list. You were saying it’s an outlier to the “community as a whole”and that may be more accurate but this polling wasn’t of the “community as a whole.”
August 8th, 2009 at 8:16 am
Surprises for me:
“The Grind Date” wasn’t higher.
There are four Doom albums on this list. The reasons for such have already been explained by the polling methodology but still, as much as I like dude, that’s just silly. Same goes for having two albums by The Streets. I’m on the fence with Ghostface too. I think he deserves two placements but three feels excessive.
“The Lost Tapes” and Wale’s mixtape made this list but the Clipse’s “Got It For Cheap Vol. 2″didn’t. And more to that point, I can’t see how their second LP even managed to make this list, let alone ahead of “Lord Willin.”
Personally, I preferred “College Dropout” over the other two Kanye albums but I’d be hard pressed to argue Kanye didn’t deserve all three on here only because, when we look back on ‘00, THE definitive artist will be Kanye.
If you had asked me five year ago, I would have said 50 Cent and/or Jay-Z but that’s before both dudes faded by decade’s end.
August 8th, 2009 at 8:29 am
I should add:I hadn’t noticed Young Jeezy was missing from this list until I read Jordan’s comment. That, to me, is a massive, huge outlier (his absence) and a reflection of the narrow band of polling.
I don’t mean that as a spiteful criticism but any Top 50 list of the ’00s that has two Masta Ace albums and zero Young Jezzy albums suggests a certain shallowness in the depth of polling. The South is really, really minimized here which flies in the face of its dominance in the the ’00s overall. I was just going over the list again and noticed that *every* single Southern album repped here were more or less big Southern “crossover” albums - Scarface’s “The Fix,” T.I.’s “King”, the last UGK album and every single Outkast album. There is no Southern equivalent to Edan or Blu or Slum Village to be found though.
August 8th, 2009 at 8:51 am
“There is no Southern equivalent to Edan or Blu or Slum Village to be found though.”
Well there’s Little Brother.
August 8th, 2009 at 9:56 am
“I don’t mean that as a spiteful criticism but any Top 50 list of the ’00s that has two Masta Ace albums and zero Young Jezzy albums suggests a certain shallowness in the depth of polling.”
First, I wonder how many people actually have heard THOSE Masta Ace albums before they go judging the relative merits of that vs. anything else. Those albums are stellar. I had Disposable Arts at #4. That might be my favorite album of the decade all things considered.
Secondly, I question the basic notion that certain artists NEED to be on a list. Yes, Young Jeezy was the “It” Rapper In 2005 and sold a lot of records but the critical consensus was nowhere near unanimous about the merits of “Let’s Get It”. Personally,I thought it was shallow and trite so it didn’t make my list. But Ja Rule was HUGE in 1999-2002 and NOBODY wants him on the list. Where’s DMX? Black Eyed-Peas? Fat Joe? Ludacris? Missy? They were just as reflective on their personal times as anything that came out as Jeezy.
Clearly, there some levels of critical discretion going on when attempting to make these things. If we can exclude Black-Eyed Peas and Ja Rule because we think they suck despite their popularity, why can’t we do for it Jeezy or Rick Ross?
August 8th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
DocZ:You’re making some false comparisons here though. The fact that Ja Rule and Young Jeezy are both popular does not make them comparable. They are not very similar artists in any way EXCEPT that they both happen to be popular artists that you do not like.
More to the point, the issue isn’t whether you personally like Jeezy or not. Nor am I trying to convince you that you should. But I think his absence from this list is pretty notable because Jeezy’s album did not merely sell well; with his debut, he made a very significant impact “on the game.” I think that’s something to take into account especially since a rapper like 50 Cent wouldn’t make this list if his debut had sold 120,000. Obviously, *impact* as much as anything, is a valid criteria to weigh, besides the even more abstract notion of “quality.” (Quality is truly subjective; impact you can actually make an empirical argument for).
And Jeezy’s debut album had a very big impact. And not just in my opinion.
So the fact that he’s not on this list anywhere tells me this:based on who was polled, the kind of impact Jeezy made is either 1) invisible or 2) disregarded.
Let me say this again:this is not a salty criticism on my part. I’m interested in analyzing what this polling says. And what I’m seeing is that it’s pretty clear that the majority of those polled simply don’t recognize Southern hip-hop as a legitimate part of the stylistic conventions they value.
Again, I’m not saying this as an attack. But am I wrong?
August 8th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
Exactly, Zeus - you talk to someone not familiar with Masta Ace’s later material about how good it is and they tend to laugh you off like you’re some sort of crazy person. Disposable Arts is perhaps my favourite of the decade also - just spectacular.
But great list all around. I have to agree with an earlier comment about the exclusion of Nia - would have easily made my top ten - and I’m also surprised by the exclusion of AOI: Bionix, one of my favourite De La Soul albums, but perhaps I’m on a different wavelength with this one.
In any case, great idea, inspired picks, and fantastic writing. With this and ‘Jerking’ I can’t get away from passionweiss.com at the moment.
August 8th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Now, as for the latter half of your argument:
Ja Rule and DMX arguably made their best material in the ’90s, not the ‘00. Personally, I think Ja Rule was a better singles artist than an album-maker. I don’t know if any of this LPs would make my Top 50 of the ’90s list. DMX would have to be on there somewhere, at least once if not twice.
Missy is trickier - her most critically celebrated albums came out in the late ’90s but I would absofuckinglutely put “Under Construction”on my list of the ’00s. The fact that she’s not on this list either is striking. It really is, especially since there are NO WOMEN on the list at all. Of course, you could argue that the 00s were a terrible decade for women in general (and that would be completely correct). Shocking as it may be for ME to say this, I’m surprised Jean Grae didn’t make the list but she might have been even a bit too obscure to make a consensus.
Point being: Missy’s absence again suggests a particularly narrow set of stylistic conventions/values. And in this case, you really can’t argue her early ’00s albums weren’t critical darlings; they absolutely were. But Missy’s always been more popular with pop critics than rap heads so I’m not terribly surprised she might get overlooked. (These being the same rap heads who also undervalue Southern rap aesthetics).
Ludacris’ absence isn’t a big surprise - again, he’s more of a singles guy and in any case, Luda’s impact with rap heads was muted.
The Black Eyed Peas are missing for the same reason Nelly’s missing. In their case, their impact on hip-hop at large was pretty muted (actually, even more so than Nelly’s).
I would say, however, that Fergie’s “London Bridge”was one of the Top 50 rap beats of the 00s. (note:I said beats, not songs).
Back to Jeezy: unlike the artists above, he doesn’t align with anything I just said EXCEPT for the fact that he embodies a Southern style that isn’t going to go over well with people who think MF Doom made four of the best albums of the last 9 years.
So to state this again:it suggests a certain shallowness in the polling. That’s meant as an observation, not a dagger.
And just so we’re very clear here:I edited a book on “the best” rap albums from 1979 –> the early ’00s and the list of albums we covered TOTALLY was reflective of a certain shallowness in the consensus built between me and my contributors. There’s any number of albums that probably should have been in our book that were not. There were probably a few albums that should not have been our book (at least not by 2009 standards. When we wrote the book in 2002, everything seemed to “make sense”).
Note:we didn’t have Missy in the book either and I *still* regret that. And yes, I would put Young Jeezy in the 2nd edition. And at least one or two MF Doom albums. Interestingly: “Slaughtahouse”was one of the last albums to get cut from our final list. I was pushing for it; no one else was. C’est la vie.
August 8th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Matt:In regards to De La…Bionix kind of came and went; I never thought there was much buzz around it. In contrast, “The Grind Date”got tons of love; I would argue it was an early recipient of blogosphere momentum.
August 8th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Jordan…you wrote:
““There is no Southern equivalent to Edan or Blu or Slum Village to be found though.”
Well there’s Little Brother.”
No, what I meant is that Blu or Edan are niche artists to a fairly narrow band of fans. yet they’re repped here. In contrast, Southern rappers have massive, legions of fans, yet there are no “Southern albums for Southern rap fans”albums on this list at all. It just goes back to my “narrow polling” observation.
I mean, people who love Rich Boy or Z-Ro are unlikely to have Edan high on their Top 10 list. And that’s fine. But it is equally notably to turn around ask, “how come there’s no Trae on this list?” Or hell, leaving the South, why isn’t Turf Talk’s “The Vaccine” on here? Is it really any more obscure than “Viktor Vaughn”? All these things point to the kind of stylistic conventions shared by the majority of the polled. Not good or bad; just how it is.
August 8th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
O.W. — I’d call impact almost as subjective a basis to judge an album on as quality. Apart from the fact that it’s almost impossible to measure, even an attempt to is going to place some features of the music over others and value some parts of the audience more than others.
In some ways, if you want to talk evaluate impact alone, the Black Eyed Peas should have been in this list. They were the ones who created a form of hip-hop that exists solely within a pop sphere, far more than Nelly or Ja Rule did. Elephunk was a pretty game-changing album, even if it was complete garbage.
August 9th, 2009 at 12:19 am
O.W. - great point about The Grind Date and the blogosphere. Re: Bionx, I would have said that its lack of momentum at the time was mainly due to Tommy Boy collapsing shortly after its release, cutting short its label support, and that its mediocre impact therefore shouldn’t be seen as a reflection on its actual quality. At the time I thought it was their best LP in years.
August 9th, 2009 at 1:04 am
Jonathan: What I would say is this:
I think it’s easier to achieve a social consensus on what albums are *impactful* vs. which are *better*. The variables that one would introduce to evaluate the latter are greater and more open to contention, in my opinion, than the former.
Case in point:I think I’d have a far easier time getting people to agree to this statement:”Get Rich or Die Trying” was a highly influential album on trends and styles in hip-hop, as well as within the recording industry” vs. this statement, “Get Rich or Die Trying” was a great hip-hop album.”
By virtue of not just how many albums it sold, but how that album’s success launched the G-Unit and 50’s stature in popular culture, it’s hard to say that album didn’t have an impact. Actually, it’s not just hard - I would say it’s impossible to deny the album’s impact.
I think it’s relatively easy to get a room full of people to debate the album’s merits as a work of music/creativity or however else you would weigh “quality.”
I’m not sure I understand your point about BEP. What form of hip-hop did they create that did not exist prior? I always thought of BEP as a more saccharin version of The Fugees but maybe that’s just me. I don’t know if I’d look at the history of *hip-hop* (vs. pop music in general) in the 00s and think, “yeah, BEP really changed the game.”
Kanye West? Undoubtedly.
50 Cent? Unfortunately.
*ahem* Young Jeezy? Ay! I mean, ya.
BEP?
*crickets*
You want to talk *pop music at large*, then sure, BEP’s are major players. But I would argue they haven’t even had the impact on hip-hop that Hammer. Hammer’s success created a clear, visible and lasting backlash that influenced hip-hop’s styles. No one in hip-hop really gave a fuck about BEP’s success, mostly because they didn’t need to respond to the group in order to make their paper.
Matt: Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right - “Bionix” did not get the same push from TB that the first AOI album did. There just was very little hype behind that album, whereas “The Grind Date” had scads of good will AND internet push behind it.
August 9th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Interesting list.
Makes me realize how vastly superior the 90s hip hop scene was.
But no “Shadows on The Sun” by Brother Ali? Come on bro…you know that album is fucking incredible!
Guess you’re not a big fan of Dilated Peoples?
“Expansion Team” should be on that list imo. As well as “Power in Numbers” by Jurassic 5. Perhaps “The W” by Wu Tang.
PEACE.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Nice list, you’re going to have to go the whole pitchforkian hog and do a “100 best tracks of 00s” now.
August 9th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Sach, that piece about Blueprint absolutely killed it. Very well written man! An awesome read. Thanks!
August 9th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
@Ray:”Makes me realize how vastly superior the 90s hip hop scene was”
Ha - for real, I think there’s a whole generation of “old dudes” who would cosign. Personally, I may feel the same way but I also know that probably has as much to do with me than it does hip-hop as a movement.
That said, it’d be very interesting to compare, say, the Top 20 of the 00s with the Top 20 of the ’90s and see how many different labels would be represented. There’s definitely a case to be made that part of what has stymied the ’00s is that industry consolidation has created far more conservative choices about which artists get to shine.
As an observation, if you look at the Top 20 albums on the list, the label breakdown comes out as such:
Goodvibe + Rawkus + Def Jux:1 each (none in the top 10)
Columbia:1
Stonesthrow:2 (both in top 10)
Sony/BMG: 4
UMG: *10*
That’s really stark. Three of the biggest record companies in the world control 75% of the top 20 and what’s truly unfortunate is that there’s no middle ground because, these days, there is no Jive/Zomba or Tommy Boy or Epic or Loud to fill in the zone between the big big big labels and the independents (and even then, it’s questionable how “independent” Rawkus was since their funding was News Corp and “Fantastic 2″ was basically paid for with A&M money (though this was before UMG bought out A&M).
In contrast, if you take even an cursory look at what the top rap albums of the 1990s were, there’s a far greater diversity of labels being represented. I don’t think it’s coincidence that the perceived decline in quality correlates with the narrowing of the industry. (And shit, I haven’t even talked about what happened to radio during this time).
August 9th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
the whitest review in the world.
a whole review using a metaphor for kevin smith and kanye? just same fat white dude typing away reviews.
August 9th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Kevin Smith’s not big in the hood? Word?
August 9th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Thanks for doing this guys, really enjoyed all the reviews. I’m a little surprised about the top 10, thought it would be more ‘hardcore’ for some reason.
I’ve never been able to get into Blueprint, always hear about how its such a great album, JZ’s best, on level with Illmatic… ect. But for me I’ve always found it plain. I have the same issue with a lot of Ghostfaces stuff, great technically but just doesn’t excite me. Always loved reasonable doubt and black album a lot more then blue print. However I’m probably wrong, so I think I’ll make an effort to listen to Blueprint again.
August 10th, 2009 at 5:12 am
yeeshk, this list is terrible. I’d rather Y2k The album, Edan’s stuff and especially Shock G’s ‘Fear of a mixed planet’ over any of Jay-z bloated albums. Masta Ace’s 00s efforts over Kanye’s also. Probably The Unseen over Madvillainy, the former is defintitely Madlib’s best.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am
waited in line for hours to excape Manhattan that day. They finally let us onto Ferries and dropped us off in Hoboken NJ. Across the street was a SamGoody, I walked right in- bought The Blueprint and immediately put it into my CD player. Sat on the NJ side of the Hudson, listening to “The Takeover” trying to figure out what my (and all of our) next moves were… that record will forever be connected with 9/11 for me. Like the shirt I was wearing to work in the morning, or the look on people’s faces while we waited for those boats… its just all connected.
August 10th, 2009 at 10:37 am
I looked over this list again and have a few additional thoughts:
1. Immortal Technique should have at least one record on here. Either “Revolutionary Vol. 2″ or “The 3rd World” imo. Both albums are complete masterworks.
2. “Graduation” is a fun album to listen to, but lacks the lyrical depth to be considered a classic imo. No way is it top ten material.
3. “Violent By Design” by Jedi Mind Tricks is mos def one of the top 50 albums of the last ten years.
3. While I like the “Game Theory record, “Phrenology” and “Rising Down” are both superior works by The Roots.
…and that’s all I have to say about that.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Ray:I was surprised by the selection of “Game Theory” over those other two Roots albums as well. To me, “Game Theory,”by far, was the weakest of the three.
Re: “Graduation” - my least favorite of Kanye’s three albums but I don’t think “lyrical depth” is something anyone typically equates with Kanye, period.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
and definitely Dwight Spitz deserved a high placing on the list. that album rules. Kevin Smith is an absolute schnook and his films are awful. I think the point when my judgment on Die Hard 4 moved from bad film to terrible film was when his character popped up.
August 10th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Missing Brother Ali… I’m partial to the Blue Scholars, but I can understand why they didnt make it.
Was “Below the Heavens” on the list?
August 10th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
“An advocate of gay rights”????? Kanye? Who would “do anything for a blonde dyke”?? Iknow he SAID he was for gay rights, but the creator of the song “Gay Fish”is anything but enlightened.
August 10th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
wow looks like a missed a good discussion. Damn moving and all the BS that comes with it. For what it’s worth, personally myself I had 6 of the top 10 albums on my list. When I made my list, I stuck with stuff I liked, my personal top 50. Coming up with the 50 best albums of the decade still has a personal liking to it, so I just stuck to my favorites. But y’all gotta remember…a list is an opinion. Why argue over an opinion, there is no right or wrong to it.
August 11th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Trap Muzik>KING, Clipse’s albums should’ve been higher…. Mike Skinner “the streets” really doesn’t belong on this list, I enjoy his albums but it isn’t rap…. Dizzee Rascal,Roots Manuva and KaLashnekoff all made much better UK RAP albums… DOOM is dope but 4(!?) of the best 50 is a bit fucking rich. Kanye’s Graduation just wasn’t that good. Black Milk’s Tronic and Beanie’s B.Coming shoulda been in there along with Face’s MADE and some Z-Ro. Oh and as far as left field futuristic ish goes; G-Shock’s Fear of a Mixed Planet was far superior to Deltron 3030. Otherwise… nice list especially the top 3 (SupremeClientele!) and anyone who thinks GRODT shouldn’t be in the top 10 needs their head read!
August 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am
I mean, people who love Rich Boy or Z-Ro are unlikely to have Edan high on their Top 10 list.
^^^
Not in my top ten but he’s in the 50…. Trae’s underrated…. like a southern G Rap (yeah, yeah, I know… BLasphemy) but dude can spit
August 12th, 2009 at 12:01 am
i was gonna write that i can’t complain about a damn thing on this entire list … but then i read that dude said “It even has, in “Never Let Me Down,” a track on which he betters Jay-Z, the best in the game.”
i fell out on that one. i’ve literally NEVER heard ANYONE say kanye had half a bar better on this song than any of jay’s …
August 13th, 2009 at 3:46 am
LOL i gotta agree with chris Jay DESTROYS kanye on never let me down, like obliteration.
Below the heavens should swap with the carter 3. Heck the carter 2 or a handful of wayne’s mixtapes were better and on top of the bar exam 2 was better than all the above.
One glaring omission to me is Elzhi’s preface, alongside Q-Tip’s album i thought it was the best release last year.
And finally, yeah! wtf no Boy in Da Corner, niche? yes, brilliant? It fuckin is. Klashnekoff’s debut was a madness as well.
August 16th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
so i never even heard of this site ijus stumbled up on it and dammit ifeel at home! this list is dam there flawless!! supreme clientale baby! everytimei mention that album niggas stone me! and finally someone agrees wit me! i just think hip hop is dead should b here…….. somewhere
August 20th, 2009 at 7:04 am
illmatic should of been one … hands down
December 1st, 2009 at 6:21 pm
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