SXSW Day 4 (Pt. 1): On Rap/Rock, The Legacy of the Beasties, and Asher Roth Vs. The Knux
Other than freshman Delta Sigma Theta rushes at Cal-State Chico, no substrata of the American population has worse taste in rock than rappers. Sure, your little brother likes Fall Out Boy, but eventually, he’s going to grow up and discover The Clash, then weed, then hopefully Junior Murvin and Lee Perry, until ultimately he’s repudiating his past like a music writer with Jim Morrison posters still taped to the walls of his childhood bedroom (I stand by them). Your dad* might take his tips from Paste Magazine, and laud the wood-chip lull of Sky Blue Sky, but at least when he retreats to the basement to filch out a roach and wallow nostalgically, he’ll probably spin Springsteen, Dylan, or Hendrix.
But whenever journalists asks rappers what rock they’re listening to, it’s ultimately some milquetoast mediocrity: Phil Collins, Journey, Coldplay, Linkin Park, John Mayer, Maroon 5, The Killers–and that’s just Kanye. So why should anyone be surprised that when B.o.B. and Lil Wayne play rock star kabuki, they do it with a crude caricature suggestive that the Shop Boyz aren’t the only ones who still think of rawk, as a mire of aggro-douchebag overcompensation set to Wes Borland riffs. Then again, this would explain Nickelback.
The boundaries between genres are more fluid than they’ve been in at least a decade. Last year, Kanye caused massive hip-hop blog constipation consternation when he sampled MIA and Santogold, while Jim Jones kicked 16 henchman-like bars over electro-puff pop made by some kids who went to Wesleyan. Wiz Khalifa samples Alice DJ, Kid Cudi duets with Little Boots, Mickey Factz auditions to be the third member of Simian Mobile Disco–the litany goes on. What’s troubling isn’t the worthy desire to breach cultural and sonic barriers, but rather something that Disco Vietnam pointed out: it’s the equivalent of going to a “trendy” restaurant and being served drank bacon-infused vodka and a cheeseburger served on an English muffin.
Like White Lines, Just Don’t Do It.
Just as a music writer would look asinine reviewing Is This It, without a thorough understanding of The Velvets and Television, or white comics who try to mine hip-hop for cheap laughs (Weird Al and Lonely Island-excluded), rappers usually look dilettantish when trying to re-appropriate music they scarcely know. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe Factz lamps to Luomo and Kode9 in his leather-laden apartment. Perhaps B.o.B. is an aficionado of Killing Joke and The Raincoats–but I doubt it. (Look, I’d settle for Alice in Chains’s Dirt and Nirvana Unplugged too).
This isn’t exactly breaking news–the pendulum’s shifted numerous times prior. There was Flash and Fab Five Freddy (ostensibly) running trains on Debbie Harry at the Days Inn, Run DMC enlisting Aerosmith for “Walk This Way,” Hip-House, the Judgment Night soundtrack, and Jay-Z’s, Unplugged with The Roots. How much Kraftwerk was in the sound of early hip-hop and the great Detroit producers? What about Carl Craig, Juan Atkins, and Derrick May? Shit, half of the The Message sounds more like “Electric Feel” than it does “We Fly High.”
But the weak roots of this shallow fusion lie in rap-metal from the late 90s, N.E.R.D., and Kanye West’s decision to sample “Young Folks”, and “Stronger”–two well-worn outfits for indie kids, but downright revolutionary to hip-hop heads whose idea of sonic diversity stopped at Stankonia. The pattern’s there too. Every five or six years or so, hip-hop gets stale and seeks outside inspiration. When the cycle plays out, it closes ranks, retreats and seals itself hermetically. Daisy Age eclecticism was flipped in favor of Golden-Age gangsta rap, rap-rock and late 90s coffee shop bohemia soul were evicted by chrome gangster pop and the nostalgia de la boue of trap-rap.
I Could Posted “Prom Queen,” But in Many Ways, This is More Frightening
Moreover, the rise of illegal downloading has provided a major financial incentive to annex new territory. On Stage Names, Will Scheff of Okkervil River labeled his group, a “mid-level band,” but they’re playing Conan and having Lou Reed ask them to open for him at Highline Ballroom. Beanie Sigel, signed to Def Jam, is going to jail for three months, because of an addiction to Xanax and Percoset stemming from his inability to get that dough. Rap fans download like no other–save for teenagers and Southerners, who will buy anything from Jonas Brothers DVD’s, to Rick Ross records, to Larry the Cable Guy tickets–Wale’s “Perfect Plan” theory in action.
Sure, the Internet eases one’s ability to sample other genres, but even if these dudes were copping Fabric mixes and the new Dirty Projector’s album, it wouldn’t necessarily result in a windfall of great music. Incorporating interesting and new sounds requires true synthesis–the sort that can only be gained with time, serious listening, and practice. Otherwise, it’s English muffins and Cheeseburgers.
But as foolish as it is for white hip-hop fans to sing the virtues of exclusionism, it’s just as wrong-headed to assume that rap’s solubilility won’t yield it’s share of successes. After all, Kid Cudi’s “Day ‘N’ Nite (Crookers Remix),” “WaleD.A.N.C.E.,” Jay Electronica’s decision to sample the Eternal Sunshine theme, and 808s & Heartbreak, gave us some of the best music of 06-08. To say nothing of great rock, dance, and noise-infuenced stuff like Subtle’s For Hero: For Cool, Dalek’s Abandoned Language, El-P’s I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead, and the Islands and Busdriver’s “Where there’s a Will, There’s a Whalebone.”
Kids today are more apt to wear skinny jeans, and grow up with omnivorous Internet appetites for music. Whereas, it was once weird to like acts like TV on the Radio and Wale, now they collaborate. It’s the end result of rap’s collision with mainstream–Kanye West and Lil Wayne aren’t rappers, they’re pop star, name brands. As my LA Times piece** about the gay hip-hop community hopefully illustrated, the walls that once insulated rap from mainstream pop have fully eroded. So maybe it’s fitting that as rap enters its fourth decade, The Beastie Boys, the first rap group to ever top the Billboard charts, have emerged as one of the seminal influences of the latest generation–with The Cool Kids, Knux, and Asher Roth among their foremost disciples.
To Be Continued…Same Blog Time…Same Blog Channel
* For the record, my dad listens to nothing but Israeli gypsy pop and sports talk radio. I should probably hip him to Kutiman or Monotonix, but that would require more effort and patience than I’m willing to expend.
Stumble It!
March 24th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Everyone should be hip to Monotonix.
March 24th, 2009 at 10:28 am
GREAT post!
I’m so torn as far as hip-hop’s current widening out phase. As someone who considers himself all about authenticity, I feel like alot of artists are just doing it to trendhump and cash in on what the kids are listening to. The idea that someone is going to bastardize what actually means something to me for commercial reasons eats me up inside. There’s a part of me that wants to say “Hey, one of you guys should really sample something from the Fuck Button’s record!” But if its not genuine, I wouldnt touch it. Thats one of my major problems with Mickey Factz. Like the “Incredible” record everyone one raved about, wasnt even a sampled record. He just jacked some shit off the Ed Banger compliation and gave no credit. (Sebastian’s “H.A.L.” for those interested.) I think that in time, it will get to the point where genres wont exist in the form we consider them now. But until then, I’m going to be on edge, questioning any time someone tries something different.
March 24th, 2009 at 10:33 am
Also, its Alice Deejay! Been a huge fan for years.
And I secretly dig that Drive-Thru record, but I dig anything Julian from the Strokes is involved in.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I tuned into KIIS-FM this morning, and heard the new Pitbull song, which cheekily samples classic Kenny Dope dance hit “The Bomb.” Except I wasn’t totally mad at it, as I can totally see Pitbull dancing to that song and others like it at some WMC party years ago.
Ultimately, I just wish rappers would spend as much time really LISTENING to music as (great) producers do.
I can (and do) chide Kanye for thinking he’s cool for sampling a track from the first Tears for Fears album. It’s at least a step in the right direction, to echo Weiss’ sentiments about Mr. West yesterday.
But when I delve into the samples of someone like Jay Dilla, I end up discovering a wide world of music ranging from Gentle Giant to the Cyrkle to Singers Unlimited to you get the picture. This is not forgetting names like Giorgio Moroder, who I’d already mined thanks to the likes of Derrick May and Carl Craig (who is also responsible for my initial forays into Can and Bandulu). It’s the sound of someone that spent countless hours flipping through old records and actually dug into those discs once he got them home.
As a long-time Pharrell apologist (I just prefer his technicolor brand of ridiculousness to, I don’t know, most dudes that play on his level), I’ve always winced at his obvious and often superficial moves (recording with Good Charlotte, sampling the main hook of “Perfect Beat” in 2009). At least he used to name-check Stereolab back in the day.
In short, there are no mainstream rappers whose musical tastes I respect at ALL anymore. Sadly, the same goes for most indie rappers—at least the ones I’m familiar with. Those that know your shit, I’m not talking about you. Holla.
PS: I would be remiss not to shout out Q-Tip here. He’s a rapper that crate-digs like a producer (which he is too, so maybe he doesn’t even belong in this conversation). But dude had the class to cover “Mt. Airy Groove” the last time I saw him live. It’s not exactly Captain Beefheart, but it’s certainly not from the top of the Hype Machine charts, either.
March 24th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Thanks for the really thoughtful and insightful comment, Scott. I wholeheartedly agree, so don’t have much to add, but it seems that the Detroit producers (14KT, Black Milk, the D-House guys, obviously Dilla), seem to possess a broader curiosity beyond top 40 shit.
There’s probably a half-dozen guys I’m leaving out too.
March 24th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
i don’t get the flak for N.E.R.D. “Seeing Sounds” is better and more varied than “808s,” and i don’t even really think of them as rock, just a weird pop group with goofy-ass lyrics. especially on that album, which doesn’t have a lot of straight-up rock tracks. The Neptunes’s N.E.R.D. work is miles ahead of almost everything else they’ve done sonically, with the exception of their beats for Jay-Z, that one Snoop album, and the second Clipse album. i can’t wrap my head around why some of the shitty canned beats they did pre-2002 (”Superthug’s” a prime candidate for bad guitar/rap fusion in my book) get praised as revolutionary while N.E.R.D. gets written off.
and as far as Coldplay, i thought their last album had made it OK to admit they were good. really though, “Rush of Blood,” “Viva la Vida” and the EP they put out after it all > anything Radiohead’s done since “Kid A.” i realize you didn’t mention Radiohead, but i thought i’d put that out there anyway
March 24th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
I think I liked hip-hop better when I didn’t recognize the samples from a song I just heard on another station and actually had to read liner notes to put together the skeleton. While Kanye’s not putting out the worst music, I’m tired of hearing him applauded as some kind of producing genius just because he’s slightly less lazy than other well-knowns.
Dilla’s uber-sampling today is what looping a Lou Reed hook was 20 years ago. Too bad so many want to steal and bite his work instead of use it as a frame of reference.
I do find it hilarious that Weezy seems to think learning a chord or two on guitar makes him “rock.”
Once again, I applaud you Weiss.
March 24th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
You make some really good points, Trey, but sort of shoot yourself in the foot by ripping on “Superthug.” I dunno, I saw NERD last year–it was one of the worst shows I’ve ever been to. I’m honestly not fluent enough in their discography to launch into a point-by-point critique, but I’ve consistently been unimpressed by Pharrell post ‘03–save for about half of Hell Hath No Fury and some of the Slim Thug album. He strikes me as a perfect example of a guy who had some success, got lazy, and stopped moving forward–which would explain the shallow grasp of rock.
Radiohead is a valid point too, but really, they’re the one great band that people with shitty taste in music name-drop to seem smart and cool.
@ Doug–Thank you very much. Kanye’s sample choice might not be nearly as original as everyone thinks, but I’m consistently impressed by the way he re-purposes them into wholly new contexts.
March 24th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I just re-read Chuck Klosterman’s seminal essay on Billy Joel from “Sex, Drugs & Cocoa Puffs” and a lot of what he has to say about Billy Joel can be directly applied to Coldplay.
Coldplay is a band that is not in the remotest sense can be considered “cool” but their singles all have managed to be really great and the albums are all fairly good as well.
Doesn’t mean that I want any rappers making music with them, though and rappers definitely need to expand their rock literacy beyond them, Limp Bizkit and Phil Collins.
March 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am
i co-sign zeus, and all the points made about great producers finding sources outside of soul and top-40. and in addition to pharrell name-checking stereolab, dilla sampled them, as well.
i think taking sources and bending them to your own vision– in hip-hop, as least– what separates madlib and dilla from… well, damn near everybody else.
March 25th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Word on this, esp. current crossovers = marketing synergy, not musical melding.
Still can’t figure out though, why so many hip-hop cats have such terrible, terrible taste in rock. Yeah, there’s the odd exception (Schoolly’s Signifying Rapper), but…Body Count, anyone? I mean, Premier digs so deep for example he ends up sampling some silent movie soundtrack for Illmatic and in all that time he never found a Sonic Youth record? It’s weird.
Also, not to dis, but you mean “play rock star karaoke” not “play rock star kabuki,” I think…though Lil Wayne playing rock star stylized Japanese acting would probably be a lot more interesting.
March 25th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Not in defense of N*E*R*D or anything, since even as a fan, their live shows are a complete mess. It’s like someone slid Pharrell some old Bad Brains footage and he decided to emulate it in the laziest, most obvious way possible (which seems to be his new M.O.)
But to echo Trey Stone’s sentiments, they do manage to do all sorts of really interesting things in the studio that get completely overlooked underneath all of the bombast and pink sneakers. It’s too bad, because there’s so much creative potential there.
But dude, are you serious about Coldplay’s recent output being better than Radiohead post-Kid A? “House of Cards” alone pwns Coldplay’s entire catalog. And their singles have definitely gone downhill in the past couple of years (I don’t think I’ll ever be able to forgive them for raping Kraftwerk’s “Computer Love.” That was all kinds of wrong). The only point I can concede to Coldplay is the “secret” song on Viva La Vida, “Chinese Sleep Chant,” which is still just their attempt at aping shoegaze heroes like My Bloody Valentine.
@Douglas Martin: Yeah, I was going to mention Dilla sampling “Come Play in the Milky Night,” but never got around to it. Thanks.
March 25th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
truthfully, i should probably give Radiohead’s more recent albums another close listen, but overall i get the vibe that, outside of a couple tracks i like on “Amnesiac,” they pretty much bust their creative nut (eloquently speaking) with “Kid A” and their subsequent albums have been either a) unfocused experimentation that doesn’t come together like that album (”Amnesiac”) or b) poorly trying to reconcile their new millennium output with their previous rock sound. that said, to be fair i like about half of that solo album Thom Yorke put out.
with Coldplay, i agree with the standard criticism that they can be boring, really boring depending on which album we’re talking about (i think “Parachutes” and “X&Y” only have a few good tracks between ‘em,) but in their inspired moments their melodies are transcendent. sounds corny, but true. i can co-sign on some of the more recent singles though, to be honest with the exception of “Lovers in Japan” i think their singles from the new one are some of its weakest tracks.
March 25th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
One last thing that’s super-relevant to this discussion: I just heard that the Black Lips backed GZA onstage at Emo’s. So I’ve gotta give GZA MAJOR props. That’s hot right there! Anyone happen to catch that?
@Trey Stone: I can understand losing interest in Radiohead post-Kid A to some degree. That album is such a high watermark/paradigm-shifter it can be difficult to match. But as someone that’s really listened to those guys intensely ever since The Bends, I might just be more tuned into the subtleties of their most recent work. They’re not trying to change the world anymore–they’re just making really good music. Songs from “In Rainbows” are monsters live. “House of Cards” at the Bowl last year was genuinely soul-stirring.
And I’m definitely not one of those sweeping Coldplay haters. I absolutely acknowledge their abilities and actually enjoy some of their tunes. If anything, I wish they’d really push themselves and come up with THEIR Kid A. But I don’t even think they’ve made their OK Computer (yet).
March 25th, 2009 at 9:19 pm
One band that is mixing rock and rap seamlessly and in a way that rappers and rockers both appreciate is AUDIBLE MAINFRAME (www.myspace.com/audiblem). If ya’ll haven’t heard of them, check that myspace page out. These dudes are official and are doing this hip-hop and rock thing the way it should be done! It’s The Roots meets Rage Against The Machine meets Radiohead meets De La Soul.
These guys did a few shows as Slick Rick The Ruler’s backing band AND re-recorded an anniversary edition of Smiff N’ Wessun’s ‘Da Shinin.’ These guys are the real deal and will soon be a household name