Truth. I have a feeling we’re going to see a lot more of that too, on the beats and the flow. This time black people are doing it though!

WHAAAA?!

oh, I don’t realize we were being quasi-serious.

and I dunno about your blanket labeling of the “New Wave kids” as being on some irony tip. I think the Pop Group for example, really did love free jazz & James Brown, that Gang of Four and 23 Skidoo were mostly serious about their funk and gamelans. The Slits being produced by Dennis Bovell, The Specials getting Rico Rodriguez to play with them, and of course everyone claimed to be influenced by dub production techniques. That’s what makes postpunk by far the most interesting period of gtr music to me – it’s one of the few times when white indie kids made a legitimate attempt to interact w/cutting edge black music.

Sure, there was some of that meta-aware distance, “badly played disco drums” thing a la “Death Disco” (which still rules, of course) or Heaven 17′s “We Don’t Need This Fascist Groove Thang” (though that’s mainly a dig at Thatcher innit) but it seems more the province of the blandness that synthpop developed into by like ’83 or so after so much early promise.

As far as Madchester I’m pretty meh, though there’s no denying the Stone Roses LP and the Mondays had a few great tracks. As far as the 2nd tier (Inspiral Carpets and whatever) I dunno, never really cared – oh, on the dancier side of things The Shamen had a few nice singles. If anything Madchester is interesting to me b/c like postpunk it was a time white gtr kids payed attention to things other than gtr bands. Anyway, I’d say “Screamadelica” is the pinnacle of that, even if they weren’t strictly Madchester.

I was just being flip about “Nu-Rave”. White indie kids always have to find an excuse to listen to dance music.

1. Delays made a pretty great Madchester-ish album in 2004, and no one gave a shit. They’ll end up being what Marah was to that whole Springsteen revival.

2. Bruce Springsteen should’ve definitely made this list.

3. You just wait for the HORDE Tour comeback.

There was definitely a continuity in terms of “white musicians adopting dance music” between the New Wavers and the Madchester set but ideologically, there was a world of difference and ideology in this case changed everything.

The New Wave kids had this whole rejection of classic rock/old music and that included anything bluesy. They still adapted funk (see Duran Duran, New Romantic Bowie, any of the acts you named) but it was always with some bogus ironic distance (incidentally, same thing with The Smiths’ love of guitar pop). The Stone Roses on the other hand had no qualms admiting their love of The Beatles, Kinks, Funkadelic, James Brown: by 88 it wasn’t something to rebel against, it was something to adopt. The Mondays were even more complex since they defintiely had a punk attitude but copped freely from pretty much everything. My guess is that they didn’t really have a thought process and just made music that sounded good on E.

Nu-Rave failed because everyone knew it was a fad from the get-go and actual ravers hated that shit.I think it’s that honesty and lack of pretention that’s on its way back moreso than any specific sonic signifier from the Roses/Mondays. Although they made damn good records and I wish more stuff sounded like it.

I think I’ll make a Madchester/Baggy post next week. I love that stuff and there’s way more than those two bands.

haha.