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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Alright Ma, (They&#8217;re Only Contrarian)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/</link>
	<description>Even when I was wrong, I got my point across.</description>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1078</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 01:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1078</guid>
		<description>Nihilism is when people see how things really work and decide that rather than dealing with it, they&#039;re going to sulk.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You may be thinking of existentialism, but don&#039;t worry; it&#039;s a pretty common mistake to think the latter has to lead to the former.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course, I&#039;m not 100% sure what you&#039;re on about, having never taken a lit crit class in my life.  They sound like fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nihilism is when people see how things really work and decide that rather than dealing with it, they&#8217;re going to sulk.</p>
<p>You may be thinking of existentialism, but don&#8217;t worry; it&#8217;s a pretty common mistake to think the latter has to lead to the former.</p>
<p>Of course, I&#8217;m not 100% sure what you&#8217;re on about, having never taken a lit crit class in my life.  They sound like fun.</p>
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		<title>By: CrimeNotes</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1070</link>
		<dc:creator>CrimeNotes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 20:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1070</guid>
		<description>So basically it&#039;s all a matter of nihilism, but thems the perils of freshman-year lit crit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So basically it&#8217;s all a matter of nihilism, but thems the perils of freshman-year lit crit.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1067</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1067</guid>
		<description>crimenotes:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I guess where we differ, dude, is that since we&#039;re talking about music to my mind the only standard for greatness is taste.  Which means, yes, these lists are even more silly in principle than you if you believe in some sort of objective greatness standard for music (and since everyone who tries to tell me there is one winds up going &quot;I don&#039;t know what it is, but it exists, really!&quot;) - assuming you take the lists to be actual serious exercises in defining the world, rather than just big masses of Good Shit.  Of course, I&#039;m also kind of &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/stylus-magazines-top-100-music-videos-of-all-time.htm&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;biased&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;ve also never heard an argument for a particular piece of music that doesn&#039;t eventually boil down to &quot;I like it&quot;, but them&#039;s the perils of aesthetics.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;there are certain unqualified &quot;rights&quot; in music like Dylan and the Beatles&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Well, that depends what you mean.  If you mean there are artists around which there is broad consensus, and for the purposes of practical discussion we can treat them as if everyone loved them - sure.  If you mean (and maybe you don&#039;t, but this is the insidious strain lurking below a lot of these discussions) that anyone who doesn&#039;t enjoy the Beatles or Dylan is somehow &quot;wrong&quot; and could be made &quot;right&quot; somehow.... that&#039;s where we part company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>crimenotes:</p>
<p>I guess where we differ, dude, is that since we&#8217;re talking about music to my mind the only standard for greatness is taste.  Which means, yes, these lists are even more silly in principle than you if you believe in some sort of objective greatness standard for music (and since everyone who tries to tell me there is one winds up going &#8220;I don&#8217;t know what it is, but it exists, really!&#8221;) &#8211; assuming you take the lists to be actual serious exercises in defining the world, rather than just big masses of Good Shit.  Of course, I&#8217;m also kind of <a HREF="http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/stylus-magazines-top-100-music-videos-of-all-time.htm" REL="nofollow">biased</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also never heard an argument for a particular piece of music that doesn&#8217;t eventually boil down to &#8220;I like it&#8221;, but them&#8217;s the perils of aesthetics.  </p>
<p>&#8220;there are certain unqualified &#8220;rights&#8221; in music like Dylan and the Beatles&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, that depends what you mean.  If you mean there are artists around which there is broad consensus, and for the purposes of practical discussion we can treat them as if everyone loved them &#8211; sure.  If you mean (and maybe you don&#8217;t, but this is the insidious strain lurking below a lot of these discussions) that anyone who doesn&#8217;t enjoy the Beatles or Dylan is somehow &#8220;wrong&#8221; and could be made &#8220;right&#8221; somehow&#8230;. that&#8217;s where we part company.</p>
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		<title>By: BobDobbs</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1065</link>
		<dc:creator>BobDobbs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1065</guid>
		<description>Care to explain why Talib sucks? The link to LaLane certainly didn&#039;t and he admits that it was his first ever show, so I don&#039;t really respect his opinion all that much. But he doesn&#039;t even offer reasons. What are yours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Care to explain why Talib sucks? The link to LaLane certainly didn&#8217;t and he admits that it was his first ever show, so I don&#8217;t really respect his opinion all that much. But he doesn&#8217;t even offer reasons. What are yours?</p>
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		<title>By: CrimeNotes</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1064</link>
		<dc:creator>CrimeNotes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 06:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1064</guid>
		<description>Ian: you&#039;re right to correct my use of elitist versus discriminating. But the Pitchfork list doesn&#039;t purport to be one person&#039;s lists of *favorite* songs, where Monkees vs. Dylan (as lame a discussion as I think that is) would be open season.  If you&#039;re putting out a list and being as arrogant to call it the 200 greatest songs of a given decade, you&#039;ve got some kind of burden to explain your criteria and reasoning.  You&#039;re talking about taste, they&#039;re talking about greatness.  If it was some dude naming favorites, there are all kinds of reasons that are going to be personal and come from all kinds of sources.  Greatness implies something more objective, like long-term influence and originality.  It can&#039;t be reduced to a formula but it&#039;s something more than &quot;I like it.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian: you&#8217;re right to correct my use of elitist versus discriminating. But the Pitchfork list doesn&#8217;t purport to be one person&#8217;s lists of *favorite* songs, where Monkees vs. Dylan (as lame a discussion as I think that is) would be open season.  If you&#8217;re putting out a list and being as arrogant to call it the 200 greatest songs of a given decade, you&#8217;ve got some kind of burden to explain your criteria and reasoning.  You&#8217;re talking about taste, they&#8217;re talking about greatness.  If it was some dude naming favorites, there are all kinds of reasons that are going to be personal and come from all kinds of sources.  Greatness implies something more objective, like long-term influence and originality.  It can&#8217;t be reduced to a formula but it&#8217;s something more than &#8220;I like it.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Passion of the Weiss</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1062</link>
		<dc:creator>Passion of the Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 03:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1062</guid>
		<description>Damnit Crockett, you win again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damnit Crockett, you win again.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1061</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 02:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1061</guid>
		<description>It was actually Lloyd Christmas, Jim Carrey&#039;s character from Dumb and Dumber and not Homer Simpson, who said that the Monkees were a huge influence on the Beatles...bitchez</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was actually Lloyd Christmas, Jim Carrey&#8217;s character from Dumb and Dumber and not Homer Simpson, who said that the Monkees were a huge influence on the Beatles&#8230;bitchez</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1060</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1060</guid>
		<description>I seriously love all of the comments you get on your blog (minus those man man bastards)...it&#039;s becoming a little community around here...hahaha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I seriously love all of the comments you get on your blog (minus those man man bastards)&#8230;it&#8217;s becoming a little community around here&#8230;hahaha</p>
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		<title>By: Passion of the Weiss</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator>Passion of the Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1058</guid>
		<description>I definitely see your pt and I will acknowledge stuff like I&#039;m a Believer, Good Vibrations etc. as good song-craft. Im not a Beach Boys guy by any stretch of the imagination but there&#039;s no denying Brian Wilson&#039;s genius for arrangements. i think what Im trying to get at and maybe everyone else is that there are certain unqualified &quot;rights&quot; in music like Dylan and the Beatles. And I&#039;m inclined to say that there are. Certain artists are open to interpretation (Tom Waits comes first to my mind...I hate him most critics feel otherwise, it&#039;s a matter of taste, you feel similarly about Dungen I imagine) At any rate Ill swear by It&#039;s Alright Ma as the best song ever written. I would argue that one for hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely see your pt and I will acknowledge stuff like I&#8217;m a Believer, Good Vibrations etc. as good song-craft. Im not a Beach Boys guy by any stretch of the imagination but there&#8217;s no denying Brian Wilson&#8217;s genius for arrangements. i think what Im trying to get at and maybe everyone else is that there are certain unqualified &#8220;rights&#8221; in music like Dylan and the Beatles. And I&#8217;m inclined to say that there are. Certain artists are open to interpretation (Tom Waits comes first to my mind&#8230;I hate him most critics feel otherwise, it&#8217;s a matter of taste, you feel similarly about Dungen I imagine) At any rate Ill swear by It&#8217;s Alright Ma as the best song ever written. I would argue that one for hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://passionweiss.com/2006/08/15/its-alright-ma-theyre-only-contrarian/#comment-1057</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://passionweiss.com/?p=154#comment-1057</guid>
		<description>NB.  I&#039;m not convinced Pitchfork are those people; the lack of Beatles and Dylan songs may indeed be an attempt at willful contrarianism.  There are also a dozen, less malicious explanations, most rooted in the ways that big mass lists actually get compiled.  But, you know, hate away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NB.  I&#8217;m not convinced Pitchfork are those people; the lack of Beatles and Dylan songs may indeed be an attempt at willful contrarianism.  There are also a dozen, less malicious explanations, most rooted in the ways that big mass lists actually get compiled.  But, you know, hate away.</p>
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